Yes, please go for it. Both Craig and I have come up with some good changes, and there may be some others we haven’t thought of. But if those changes are implemented that would greatly improve on this already fantastic effort
Cheers,
pdel21
If you would like for me to continue to work on this map and post my results all I ask is that this group help me make this map the best it can be. As some of you have pointed out, printing this map is not a cheap endeavor. So, I would like to get it right the first time.
I think if we work together going over several drafts focusing on different aspects of the map we can come out with something truly worthy of the price tag.
I have begun replacing the typos with new text but I did not like the original font. It appears to be just Arial. I looked into fonts from the WWII era and downloaded a font that looked like it was typed from an old typewriter. This was a cool effect, but did not read well on the map so after some searching I decided on Stencil Std. Below is a comparison between the original and the new font I am using.
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Excellent, excellent! Progress again. Thank you, deepblue, for taking the bull by the horns. I was completely happy with the corrections to the map that were mentioned earlier in this thread. With those issues fixed alone I’d consider the map worth printing. But I certainly would like to hear what suggestions Craig & pdel21 have.
Gentlemen,
I had been working on this map for about two weeks, on and off before posting to this thread. I would like to take this opportunity to catch you up on what changes I have made and solicit feedback from the group.
I will be following this post with a series of post each outlining a topic of change for the map.
My goal is to make this map as historically accurate as possible without sacrificing proper game mechanics and providing a platform for exceptional game play and fun.
So first I had to decide on what date the map would reflect. Positronica suggested 1941 but when? A lot happened in 41 countries fell, nations entered the war on either side, etc.
So after some debate, primarily with myself, I decided on the 5th of December 1941, this seems to be a good place to start. America is about to enter the war, the eastern front in Europe is stable (as stable as it could be), the Middle East had finally “picked†a side and the nations that are natural primarily stayed neutral from this point forward.
I did my best to research each change, primarily using Google and Wikipedia, but if you find an error please let me know. I am looking for constructive feedback to make this map worthy of the price tag.
So on to the changes….
Global Changes
I removed the instructional text from the map. I believe instructions should be in the instruction manual not on the map.
Text Font is now Stencil Std.
Capitals and victory cities are now gold with bevel and emboss effects.
I did not the color of the Japanese territories. They were to close to the color of the Russians and their borders did not have a major contrast. So I experimented with different purples and yellows. Purple and yellow are imperial colors so I thought that one of them would be fitting. Purple did not match well in the region because it was a darker color like the Russian Red so I decided with a golden yellow but not to much orange or we would have the same problem with the British territories.
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Hey,
I guess Dec 5th is fine but on the original as well as revised the IPC’s are dated 2 SEP 1941. (I Just reread that [I’m not trying to be a smart A**]).
The date I think is trivial because who’s to say how much time has elapsed during a turn or a round. It very well could start in SEP but the US is last and Japan might not be getting out of the starting blocks until 7 DEC 1941.
Also if you want to make it that specific as to what was where when, who’s to say you couldn’t put Germany and Italy units on the same starting places in lets say Africa?
Just some food for thought  :-)
losttribe04 ,
Thanks for the food, this is what I wanted to hear, your thoughts.
I agree the date is trivial down to the day and in some cases even the month. I just needed a date to work with.
Thanks for the input, keep it coming.
Eastern Front
In 12/41 the Germans had pushed all the way to the doorstep of Moscow. To reflect this I put the Baltic States, Byelorussia, East Poland, Western & Eastern Ukraine, Crimea and Western Russia under Germany’s control.
Orel-Kursk is now Western Russia.*
While on this subject, I put Greece under Italian control. This will help bolster Italy’s holdings after losing eastern Africa. Historically after Germany conquered Greece the majority of Greece was put under Italian occupation.
Africa
All of Libya is now under Italian control. Historically Italy lost Libya by now but the Germans had taken it back, minus Tobruk. To support Italy as a viable player nation I left in the hands of the Italians.
Abyssinia and Italian Somaliland were under British control by this time.
Abyssinia is now spelled correctly.
Belgian Congo was never neutral so they are now under British control.
Mozambique was neutral and the map now reflects that.
Sahara is now named Niger.
The region labeled Cairo is now labeled Lower Egypt.*
Libya is now Fezzan.
Madagascar was under German control at this time, the map now reflects that.
Hey all,
The biggest thing that this game dynamic at all with is types of INF or ARM. I suppose that if thats what I was looking for I should head down to the A&A Mini area. All that aside for the most part Russian INF were all snipers not ground pounders. German Tanks were in CAV units not ARM regiments these are two totally diffrent styles of fighting but they are both covered under a general umbrella what can you do?
Deepblue,
What nations does Italy now hold with these changes? We need to be sure that it is still playable as a nation.
Hay Gang,
Heres something I want to ask you. What is it you want to change about the game so I can channel my focus? For example just the map?
If thats the case I would make those city circles for NYC, San Diego, and Chicago as well. It’s not fair that the rest of the world get so many when those places are also heavily populated.
Hey,
(Sorry I think in fragments)
Somthing else to look into would be the St. Lawerce sea way. it starts in Main and devides the US from Canada. It follows northern New York into lake Ontario. From there all the great lakes are connected.
The reason I bring this up is becuase meany a Sherman came from Detroit through the sea way into the Atlantic.
In my opinion, it is not relevant having cities like that on the map if we just went by heavily populated cities as being the criteria for making its way onto the map, then there are plenty of cities in the world that belong on it befor NYC, Chicago, SD an so on. If there is no historical relevance, and it was not in the thick of the war, it shouldn’t be there.
What nations does Italy now hold with these changes? We need to be sure that it is still playable as a nation.
Currently,
Italy, Northern & Southern Italy, Greece, Sardinia, Sicily, Tripolitania, Cyrenaica, and Fezzan.
This is not set in stone and may need to be “worked†a bit. I am supportive of a playable Italy.
Europe
Austria is now labeled correctly.
Germany is now labeled.
Italy is now labeled.
Italy’s borders have been changed to look more natural.
Holland is now labeled Netherlands.
In reference to Italy’s flag I was unable to find reference to what pdel21 posted to the thread. I did find reference to Italy’s flag during this time as the same three color flag but with a coat of arms on the white stripe. I tried to reduce the coat of arms I found but the starting pictures were to big, so by the time I reduced it to fit on the map’s flag it was blurry and looked bad. So at this point the Italian flag has been unchanged.
Deepblue,
What of Albania (and more importantly, the 2 points)?
I am Italian, trust me when I say the tricolore that you see on this map was not used during WWII. The map with the shield on it was. However, what I posted to this site wasn’t the flag. It is the roundel that appears on the planes. This is no different than the star for the Americans, the british roundel (yellow, blue, white and red), the German Cross. For the sake of consistency, the roundel with the fascia on it for Italy would be more appropriate. It is also used in the game TripleA which is an AA variant for the computer. I think this would add a nice touch to the map.
pdel21,
Sorry, left Albania off the list, but trust me they are firmly controlled by Italy.
Roundel…. Oh… that makes more sense now.
Sorry for the confusion, thanks for the clarification.
Your map is not historically correct. The territories listed as German controlled in africa are not correct. those were either Vichy/ british controlled-captured/free french
and Vichy was independant. after the french failed to defend against the allied landings in torch, Hitler went in a rage and removed vichy france from the map and took it out. But before that Vichy was independant.
The territories listed as Italian territories in africa were allready (but just barely) recaptured by british forces before barbarossa
Get a map showing who had what in june 22 1941 and make it accurate.
That will help you on the names and grammer… some of your listed nations were not called what you have them listed in 1941… many of them came after ww2…
Imperious,
While I agree with you on the fact that the map is not historically correct, some concessions need to be made for simplicity’s sake. If I read between the lines of what you have typed, I take it to mean that Vichy should be included as a separate player in this game. That would just add confusion to the board. If we were going to put Vichy in, then Syria needs to be Vichy also, which further adds to the confusion. I think it is simpler for game play to have those areas in Africa labelled as German, much like in the real AA where Algeria is in German hands. Algeria was never in German hands, but for game play, it was simpler. I think that deepblue mentioned somewhere that Madagascar was now part of Germany. That I disagree with, and should probably go to the Brits for game play (again like the original AA board).
With regards to the Italians, if we back the date up 1.5 months, Italy can still hold the Eastern Africa Nations of Ethiopia and Italian Somaliland, since the Duke of Aosta surrendered toward the end of May, and the army lasted until November of that year in Gondar. As I mentioned to deepblue, we need to have Italy playable, and those nations were part of the Italian “Empire” for part of the war, and would contribute to the necessary IPCs. I would be more comfortable with the board starting with Italy having those nations and not having Greece.
Also I have provided the correct names to many of the locations already in an earlier post (either on page 2 or 3 or the listings…I think). If there are some other obvious ones, please share them with deepblue…
Imperious,
I am in agreement with pdel21 on Vichy France. No need to add confusion to the map. Like the current AA game Vichy has been rolled up with Germany.
I have a map, and it is from December 1941, nowhere have I mention June. As I stated earlier I have been working from the prospective of December of 1941.
With that in mind Madagascar is not taken by the British until May of 1942. So I don’t understand the issue there.
Concerning Northern Africa: It is my understanding that Rommel is not stopped until the first battle of El Alamein which takes place in July of 1942.
pdel21,
I originally had the map set at an earlier date to accommodate the Italian holdings in eastern Africa. But after review of the ramifications across the other regions of the world, I decided to move the date forward.
Some reasons why:
British capture Mogadishu and Italian Somaliland in February of 1941.
Yugoslavia and Greece have not been conquered yet.
Thailand is still independent.
I’m not sure if Finland is considered axis yet.
This requires more time for the Americans to enter the war.
The Middle East is still in flux.
Eastern front will change drastically.
These are some reasons why I changed my mind and moved the date of the map forward.
But this is not set in stone. I am willing to discuss this further. I felt that the current date/time would be better suited. With Italy in control of Greece this only reduced Italy IPCs by one which can be easily fixed.
Thanks for input.
