Yeah Yunnan keeps Burma Road almost always open since China can keep the five bucks coming in, the artillery buy just adds an advantage. It’s really hard to use China offensively against a Japanese player who knows what they are doing but in my games, I find Japan going after India by sea any ways.
Keep the Germans out of Moscow
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If the Germans take Ukrain (and after that probably Bryansk) it is almost impossible to help the Russians with allied (British) landunits. How do the allies keep the Germans from taking Moscow? Or how do they at least slow the Germans down?
Any suggestions?
Second, most of the games we played the Russians and the British combined didn’t have more IPC’s then Germany. How do they get more IPC’s? Should the Russians go for Iraq, and perhaps even Persia? And how do the British get more IPC? Do you let them take Brasil?
Thank you!
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Reinforce Bryansk with UK fighters before Germany can take it. As long as you hold Bryansk you can pin Germany in Ukraine. Just have to watch out for Italian can openers. Once you move from Bryansk to Moscow you give Germany a lot of economy in the south. Try to stay in Bryansk as long as you can.
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Thank you.
So we have:
1. Supplying Russia with UK aircraft;
2. Trying to keep the Germans out of Bryansk as long as possible.This is all not unexpected advice if I may say so, but do any of you have ideas about how many aircraft there should be in R5 or how many turn the Germans should be kept out of Bryansk at least?
And other strategies/ideas to curtail the Germans are more then welcome!
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Heavy Atlantic spending by the US in the first couple of rounds will at least help. If the US has 7, 8 loaded transports, along with a loaded carrier, a couple of warships and some UK help behind it, sitting at 91 on turn 3, then Germany has to use resources to defend it’s backside.
Also, the more I play the more I’m liking the US taking Spain on turn 3.
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I have built an airbase on Malta in the past. That way, if spending in the pacific is needed more for the late game, you can fly 2 or fighters over from US/UK in 3 turns (Factory to Gib, to Malta, to Stalnigrad). I used it once to secure Stalingrad. Don’t know if it can be used all the time though.
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I would like to get 6-10 UK ftrs into Russia (depending on what the Germans are bringing), but you need to plan ahead because it takes several turns. You need to move to Scotland the round the Germans attack Russia (the turn before if you want to beat him to Bryansk) . You also need to keep an eye on German transports (where they are and how many) because in order to put ftrs on Scotland you will need to slide over some inf and AA guns to protect them. You don’t want to give the Germans an opening.
The other route used is through the Middle East. You can fly from Egypt or India to any of the Persia’s then straight to Moscow (doesn’t take quite so long). Use both routes sparing what you can. An IC built in Egypt UK 2 can replace the ftrs you send. It is also easier to def Egypt (and your ships) with an air base BTW plus the range is good.
And yes be set up to go south the turn Germany attacks you and get the 5 IPCs for Iraq (2 for land, 3 for NO). It is well worth it to keep your income up as you start losing territories. The German player gets PO’d when he is taking your land, but you are still collecting around 37 IPCs. If I have to first take NW Persia I like to use 1 inf, 1-2 mech, 1 tank, ftr and tac. Then on to Iraq next turn (don’t want the Iraqi’s to roll twice). If the Germans are taking their sweet time you can have UK clear NW Persia for you then blitz your mobile units and air into Iraq. Your Russia air can get back next turn (land in NW Persia probably with some UK ftrs). If the UK is pumping ftrs into Moscow delaying the attack then your mobile units should also be able to get back (or be used to def the southern Russian territories). I personally like the UK to get Persia, they also need the income to send you planes lol.
Unfortunately you also need to pull out of Leningrad (and prob Ukraine IC) shortly after the Germans attack you. Losing inf up there isn’t good for you, and it takes 3 turns for them to get to Moscow (he will beat you if you hold out too long). If you have UK ftrs in route then you might be able to hold out an extra turn, but don’t get caught. I will buy mech up there sometimes so they can get to Moscow double time. You can pull out and set-up a counter attack sometimes just to keep him from using your ICs for a turn.
Don’t know if you ever use a battle calculator but here is a link to a pretty good one. It can be fun to look it over, but it can also add time to the game (so be careful). You need to click on the alpha3 rules and input all the units involved in the battle. It will give you the average odds of the battle. It also gives you the total IPC value of all the units in the battle for both sides. What I like to see is the average IPC loss for both sides. If it looks like the Germans will win the battle (maybe 60%), but by looking at his average losses you can tell that he should be deep into his planes, he probably isn’t attacking that turn. If you really want to get into it you can run the numbers to see how many UK planes it takes to get the battle to a toss up (need to account for you purchases and his for a couple rounds). That’s where you want to be, because the Germans don’t like even odds. Even adding a singe bmr def can change the odds by like 5% in a close battle (UK bmr can get to Moscow directly from Scotland BTW). Of course don’t count on it as if it was etched in stone, it is a dice game.
Good luck hope this helps WB
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Okay thanks guys!
So we have:
1. Supllying Russia with UK aircraft (stationing them in Iraq as long as possible);
2. Trying to keep the Russians out of Bryansk as long as possible;
3. Putting a large fleet near Gibraltar;
4. Taking Spain in R3;
5. Conquering Iraq for extra IPC’s;
6. Perhaps build an IC in Persia to bring units into the Caucasus.The Airfield in Malta seems superfluous when you can bring the fighters from Persia (when you build an IC there) to Stalingrad.
Next question: how many ships, and what kind of ships do you propose should be at Gibraltar (SZ 91) at the end of R4?
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as a suggestion, a good target could be 4-6 with 70-100% inf and the rest art (depending on how many planes you have that can reach).
If you have 6 transporters with about 4 tac/ftrs in the carrers you will be able to win an attack against 12 defensive units pretty consitently. This means that germany needs to have about 14-15 units in each of W germany, S Italy, and maybe N italy. For every TT with load you add, he needs to add 4-6 units on defence.
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Just to add to what Shadow said:
When going to Gibraltar you need to look at more then just the German bmrs if the Italians have a transport. Because of the turn order Italy can take Algeria to give the entire Luftwaffe a landing place allowing them to hit you. Plus getting to Gibraltar is only the first step, you will need get to the European coast at some point, so you’re going to need at least a couple loaded carriers and a few destroyers IMO (UK might be able to help, but they have their hands full supplying Moscow w/ftrs).
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Indeed, you need at least 3-4 carriers and some destroyers etc. to defend your transports. And I think Germany would be stupid to place units in Normandy or Norway! They should just put units behind the frontline in Paris and Finland to retake Normandy or Norway when the allies attack…
So the allies are going to need at least 12-14 transports (US and UK) in R4…
How many do you use?
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I never protect them, only the capital of Italy. But that can usually be done by a destroyer.
If Germany can beat more then 20 allied pieces, it can also beat 1 or 2. ;)
Most of the time the Germans will have around 10 aircraft left after turn 2 (usually 11, 1 lost in mediterranean). You have 7 infantry in Finland and Norway (and I always land 2 infantry from Denmark in Norway on G1). Germany has 1 transport, let say they buy another: 11 + 9 + 4 = 24 pieces!!!
Good luck allies in landing in Norway! So the allies have to have a strong landingparty. I never succeeded in landing in US4 or US5…
What about W-Germany? If you have enough in Paris and Berlin, you simply take it back and the allies have to start all over again… That way the NEVER EVER get Norway. But indeed I usually defend W-Germany. Put Mech Inf on it (for Moscow) and planes with the help of Italy’s and your own AA.
Or just buy a destroyer in SZ 110…
The destroyers give Germany or Italy one turn extra to prepare. The allies have to strengthen their effort again in the Atlantic and are delayed in the Pacific…
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1. I have never lost ANY German plane in the Atlantic! And we rule luck out as far as possible by our fair dicing system…
2. If my planes are in Germany or Polans they can reach both ways.
3. 2 destroyers are worth the trouble the allies have to go through: one entire turn is lost!
4. I never fail to subjugate the Russian army by strengthening W-Europe. Germany will get to Moscow eventually…
5. How many turns are the US planning to buy 4 transports in the Atlantic?
6. Sorry have to go to work, talkt to you later. Thanks for all your arguments!
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Hey Tolstoj
Again, with all due respect, this is another example of how it feels like every Axis counter point you present is “Well I’d just have every unit everywhere at the same time.”
In our private messages back and forth I mention how, as the US, I can have 7 or 8 (let’s call it 7 for this example) loaded transports in SZ91 by turn 3. So let’s say G4 they buy that DD in SZ110 to block: depending how the board looks the US can either take that guy out and hang in the Channel (they should have a loaded CV, a DD and a C) and rely on extra defense from UK, or kill him anyway and go to 109 and group with the UK fleet and planes, which can scramble from two bases in 109.
That same US4, any loaded transports (let’s even say they have 1) that may be ready to go from EUS can make their way up to Iceland* to join in the attack on Norway next round (obviously we’d have to see the board, but I’m assuming your subs are gone. If Germany bombers can reach Iceland, and UK can spare the units, you send a couple up there to defend). Based on what you’ve said, I don’t believe Germany’s planes will be a threat to either fleet.
*(As an aside: this is something the US can do on turn three to prevent a DD block to begin with. If Germany doesn’t have any real naval presence to speak of, head to Iceland instead of Gibraltar. The bulk of Germany’s air force cannot make it up there and they cannot simply buy a DD on G4 to block).
Next turn you can’t block Norway. So US lands 16 units in there, something like 13 inf/mech, 1 tank, 2 AA. On UK’s turn they can put a few planes in, plus land ground troops as well (I’m guessing they’d have at least 3 transports). So let’s say UK helps to the tune of 3 fighters, 6 ground units (5 inf and another AA): we’re talking 18 inf, a tank, 3 AA and 3 fighters. You said you’d have 13 ground units and 11 planes. Based on what you’ve said, I’m assuming most of the 13 are inf, but I’ll even give you 9 inf 4 art:
Using David Skelly’s battle calc, with low luck, I have the Allies winning 61.6% percent of the time. If I change that 9 inf & 4 art to 11 inf & 2 art the Allied odds go up to 76.5%. Germany cannot commit to that battle.
There are certainly variables here and, as with all arguments, unless we’re looking at the board on that specific turn, this is just theory. But the Allies can absolutely land in Norway and Europe in general. Is it always quick enough? Strong enough? No. But they can absolutely make it there.
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If Russia doesn’t get enough help to push the Germans back, why hold onto Moscow proper if you’re guaranteed to lose a large stack fight? By the time it can no longer be held, Russia isn’t producing units anymore due to low IPC + strategic bombing + losing the other three ICs, so it’s not like anything but the position itself is gone.
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Nippon-koku, remember that you can’t land AAA in an amphibious assault. So in your scenario, when the USA takes Norway, those 2 AAA would have to stay on the boats until next turn.
The UK could add its AAA during its non-combat move though. -
Nippon-koku, remember that you can’t land AAA in an amphibious assault. So in your scenario, when the USA takes Norway, those 2 AAA would have to stay on the boats until next turn.
The UK could add its AAA during its non-combat move though.Please correct me if I’m wrong, but the AA guns can move into the space during non-combat, no? So the ground troops land, taking the space, then the transports with the AA guns can non-combat onto Norway?
If not, US can simply take two extra ground units and the UK can supply the extra AA guns
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Hey Tolstoj
Again, with all due respect, this is another example of how it feels like every Axis counter point you present is “Well I’d just have every unit everywhere at the same time.”
In our private messages back and forth I mention how, as the US, I can have 7 or 8 (let’s call it 7 for this example) loaded transports in SZ91 by turn 3.� So let’s say G4 they buy that DD in SZ110 to block: depending how the board looks the US can either take that guy out and hang in the Channel (they should have a loaded CV, a DD and a C) and rely on extra defense from UK, or kill him anyway and go to 109 and group with the UK fleet and planes, which can scramble from two bases in 109.�
That same US4, any loaded transports (let’s even say they have 1) that may be ready to go from EUS can make their way up to Iceland* to join in the attack on Norway next round (obviously we’d have to see the board, but I’m assuming your subs are gone.� If Germany bombers can reach Iceland, and UK can spare the units, you send a couple up there to defend).� Based on what you’ve said, I don’t believe Germany’s planes will be a threat to either fleet.�
*(As an aside: this is something the US can do on turn three to prevent a DD block to begin with.� If Germany doesn’t have any real naval presence to speak of, head to Iceland instead of Gibraltar.� The bulk of Germany’s air force cannot make it up there and they cannot simply buy a DD on G4 to block).�
Next turn you can’t block Norway.� So US lands 16 units in there, something like 13 inf/mech, 1 tank, 2 AA.� On UK’s turn they can put a few planes in, plus land ground troops as well (I’m guessing they’d have at least 3 transports).� So let’s say UK helps to the tune of 3 fighters, 6 ground units (5 inf and another AA): we’re talking 18 inf, a tank, 3 AA and 3 fighters.� You said you’d have 13 ground units and 11 planes.� Based on what you’ve said, I’m assuming most of the 13 are inf, but I’ll even give you 9 inf 4 art:
Using David Skelly’s battle calc, with low luck, I have the Allies winning 61.6% percent of the time.� If I change that 9 inf & 4 art to 11 inf & 2 art the Allied odds go up to 76.5%. Germany cannot commit to that battle.� �
There are certainly variables here and, as with all arguments, unless we’re looking at the board on that specific turn, this is just theory.� But the Allies can absolutely land in Norway and Europe in general.� Is it always quick enough?� Strong enough?� No.� But they can absolutely make it there.�
Hi,
Thanks, now that’s something I can work with as a US-player!
The argument was about when a US fleet would go to Gibraltar (how to defend Italy and W-Germany?).
Still Germany can get a destroyer in between. If the Germans see the fleet coming: G2. They buy a destroyer in SZ 112.
And I really don’t agree on my units being everywhere everytime. I just state (as before in the Pacific) that planes can be put in between and that Japan or Germany can chose who they attack, not the other way round.
Another point I will make is that when the Germans see the US coming. It can buy another transport in G2 to bring more groundunits to Norway. But if you put 25 units on Norway in US/UK3 it will be a hell of a job to defeat those to Germany!
Can you play a game this weekend, to test our theories?
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Whoops, just thought of more setbacks for the allies in the Atlantic…
When the US builds in turn 1 in the Atlantic. Japan will not enter the war until J3. So you cannot be in SZ 91 in turn 3, you cannot even be in SZ 123. So the US cannot attack until turn 5!!!
By then Germany can have at least 30 units ready…
Good luck Allies! :-(
Any thoughts?
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Whoops, just thought of more setbacks for the allies in the Atlantic…
When the US builds in turn 1 in the Atlantic. Japan will not enter the war until J3. So you cannot be in SZ 91 in turn 3, you cannot even be in SZ 123. So the US cannot attack until turn 5!!!
By then Germany can have at least 30 units ready…
Good luck Allies! :-(
Any thoughts?
Sure, UK-pac and anzac will be making 30ish. China will be doing not so bad.
US can put a few more turns of pressure on germany.
Germany cannot have 30 units ready, because if they do those 30 are not going to moscow so moscow is saved.My thoughts exactly.
If the US1 build in the Atlantic means that Japan has to change their plan and Germany is keeping 30 units back, I consider that a success
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Tolstoj
This weekend doesn’t work for a game but we can figure something out. I won’t lie: I rarely play online. I like to be able to see the whole board in front of me, get up and move around, etc. Plus, my group plays almost every weekend so I’m never really wanting for a game.
Seeing as how we live far apart though, we can make it happen sometime 8-)
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