LHTR: Larry Harris Tournament Rules

[Guest]

Funny, that is one of the first things I said when the new rules came down :-)

[newpaintbrush]

@ncscswitch:

That last example alone… making the outcome of the game dependent upon the roll of 6 German tech dice for LRA, with automatic Axis win if the odds prevail and Germany rolls a 1… is more than ample reason to scrap the OM and use a superior rule set.

And while we admire the work being done elsewhere on these boards for a new and more realistic rule-set, in the interim we go with the best rule-set available, which also happens to be the rule-set used by almost everyone else playing online.

I don’t use LHTR, because it is not officially approved by Hasbro / Avalon Hill, even though it IS the standard for most tournaments.

How is a G1 attack on UK an automatic win for Axis?  The German air is decimated, the US can recapture, USSR can attack, the game is far from over.  Germany cannot hold UK, so must expand back east, but because of loss of fighters, Allies quickly build transport fleet to threaten W/S Eur or provide reinforcements to Archangel / E. Eur. etc depending on the situation.

[Guest]

The reason the Fall of London on G1 is an Axis win is pretty simple…

UK can spend NO MONEY on UK1.  They are already decimated, and then they can;t even buy anything.
Germany on the other hand gets to build with about 80 IPC on G2…

16 ARM heading for Russia?  On top of 8 existing, plus a significant INF screen?  And NO UK forces to reinforce or divert attention away from Russia?  No US move into Africa so that Germany keeps its eleveated income by taking 9 more IPC’s from UK, dropping them to just over 20 IPC by the time they finall DO get to buy something?  And US forced to defend UK against a second possible Germany strike on G2, since Germany’s landing force is still intact, and they are probably not totally devoid of AF…

[Guest]

But alas, that is off topic, and continued discussion requires a new thread.

As for LHTR…

It may not be “Hasbro” sanctioned, but it IS snactioned by the game designer.

Saying that it is not Avalon Hill sanctioned or Hasbro Sanctioned is not valid is like telling me that my 1st Edition AD&D books are all invalid and trash because they have E. Gary Gygax’s name and the TSR logo on them instead of Wizards of the Coast.

[newpaintbrush]

@ncscswitch:

Saying that it is not Avalon Hill sanctioned or Hasbro Sanctioned is not valid is like telling me that my 1st Edition AD&D books are all invalid and trash because they have E. Gary Gygax’s name and the TSR logo on them instead of Wizards of the Coast.

I see.

If I had known that I didn’t have the right to post my opinion, I wouldn’t have bothered.

[Guest]

I did not say you did not have the right.  I responded to your post.

The tactics discussion needs to be a new thread to continue.
And I offered a counter to your Hasbro statement.

[OneShot187]

I read this post and people have posted 2 or 3 differences in the tournament rules and the rules that came with the game.  Any more that I should be aware of?  If I play recreation with my friends FTF is there going to be huge differences than if I just taught them the tournament rules without them really knowing?

Germany taking over UK on G1… now thats scary!!

[Guest]

Tech is a major difference.
FIGs on AC’s is different

Those are the two that always stick out in my head.

Just print off a copy of LHTR, and introduce any players you meet to it, that way when they make their way HERE, they are ready :-)

[jsp4563]

SBR is another that always comes to mind.  Under the original rules you could bring 20 bombers & bomb germany back to the stone age.  Under the new rules total losses per turn can’t exceed the territories value.  Most of the other changes are clarifications.

[Guest]

Actually, that is just another clarification also.

If you read both the OM and the “what’s Changed” insert in the Revised game, you see that the intent was to limit SBR’s (primarilly because Heavy Bombers were so massively overpowered in Classic).

LHTR simply corrected language/wording issues from the OM that made the limitations more clear.

[Aretaku]

Does that revised Luftwaffe Dive Bombers rule include attacks on sea zones?

God help a lone transport, or even a small fleet with no AC, if that be the case.

[Yahoshua]

A quick question here regarding whether a move is legal or not.

In a PBF game here I attacked West Russia and seized the territory purely with infantry, I won the combat and occupied Wes Russia. In my next combat move I then proceeded to blitz with tanks through West Russia and seized Moscow.

The other player tells me that this is an illegal move, but the rules says I can blitz through territories that I control, and/or through territories that are enemy controlled but un-occupied (the ones that came with the 2004 edition, I bought it about a week ago).

Was this a legal move?

To the best of my knowledge, this wasn’t an illegal move, since I was blitzing through a territory I had just seized.

[Schlag96]

@Yahoshua:

In a PBF game here I attacked West Russia and seized the territory purely with infantry, I won the combat and occupied Wes Russia. In my next combat move I then proceeded to blitz with tanks through West Russia and seized Moscow.

The other player tells me that this is an illegal move, but the rules says I can blitz through territories that I control, and/or through territories that are enemy controlled but un-occupied (the ones that came with the 2004 edition, I bought it about a week ago).

Was this a legal move?

To the best of my knowledge, this wasn’t an illegal move, since I was blitzing through a territory I had just seized.

It was an illegal move.  All combat moves happen at once, so your tanks are not allowed to blitz through a territory just siezed.  They would be part of the initial attacking force and stop in West Russia for combat phase.

[Guest]

Schlag is correct.

The order of game play is:
Conduct ALL Combat Movement
THEN conduct all combat.

[Yahoshua]

oops

[Baghdaddy]

Hi All,

First post to your board but I have been playing wargames since 1976.  Life got in the way of playing for the past decade or so but I’m starting to get some more time to play again and AAR is what I found under the Christmas Tree.Â

Quick question on the LHTR rules.  The first link from “switch” is broken but the second link from “Craig” works.  Are the rules at the second link the “Official” rules?

I read the little back and forth in this thread but I am trying to find a good set of rules to use for an upcoming day of gaming at the house with some friends and I really don’t want to deal with the rules that include  “SBR’s do the roll of the die or the IPC value of the territory, whichever is GREATER” [emphasis added].  Given my tendency to end up on the winning side and for having the rules committed to memory, I don’t want to have to deal with that whole “what the rules really mean” situation.  It is much better if the rules actually state what I claim they say when my secret surpise attack appears out of nowhere.

Is there a good link for the errata and is there a good reason for preferring LHTR over just out of the box and errata?

Thanks for the information that is already postered here.  I have learned a lot in the last few hours and look forward to hearing more from you all.

[Guest]

Yes, we had a major gaming site go offline last year, so all of the “dicey.net” links posted anywhere on the site are now invalid.

[eggsaladsandwich]

@Baghdaddy:

… is there a good reason for preferring LHTR over just out of the box and errata?

There are a still few of us who prefer OOB rules and balancing factors to house rules (LHTR).I have found that the NAs add alot of flavor to the games.In our groups experience giving the axis 10 to 12 advantages (chosen by the allies) and the allies 6 to 8 advantages (chosen by the axis) usually evens the game up pretty nicely .

[Jennifer]

Yes, we get it, some of you like OOB rules.  I do at times too, but I’ve become accustomed to LHTR (Larry Harris) because that’s Standard Operating Proceedure for PBEM/PBF/Online play.

[Baghdaddy]

@eggsaladsandwich:

@Baghdaddy:

… is there a good reason for preferring LHTR over just out of the box and errata?

There are a still few of us who prefer OOB rules and balancing factors to house rules (LHTR).I have found that the NAs add alot of flavor to the games.In our groups experience giving the axis 10 to 12 advantages (chosen by the allies) and the allies 6 to 8 advantages (chosen by the axis) usually evens the game up pretty nicely .

Thanks for the viewpoint.  How do you handle the “glitches” that allow for Strategic Bombing of a US IC in China to eliminate all US production?  Is there some “approved” revision to OOB that takes care of the “whichever is greater” statement for IC loss on Rocket Attacks?  Both of these rules in the OOB set can really cause some problems in an otherwise friendly game.