Thoughts on Japan

[triforce]

This is not a strat that I came up with on my own, but I have used it and it seems pretty effective and for the most part unstoppable.  If this is your original work please let me know.  I want to give credit where credit is due.  Anyway I want your ideas for countering this so that I can further enhance this strat.Â

Here it is:

IGNORE THE U.S. COMPLETELY.

START NO SEA BATTLES.

The inherent problem with Japan is that it feels the responsibility to be the axis-gardener of the pacific ocean, weeding out the pesky US and UK fleets. Added to that is the pressure from the German player to harass the US and delay it’s involvement in Europe.

Chuck these ideas out the window.

Japan is much stronger than either of the Allied powers in the Pacific. You are in no danger. Amass all of your forces into a superfleet off of the coast of Japan and let it sit. Slowly add one destroyer per turn to dissuade the US from a massive amphibious assault on Japan.

Island hopping from the UK and the US is slow and while costly, can be made up for and then some by focusing on your primary target: CAUCASUS. The key is to meet Germany here.

Establish an IC in Shanghai first turn and a destroyer.

Empty Japan using your transports, then bring them back to the fleet as potential fodder. Move your air force inland. There is no need to keep them in Japan or on carriers once your fleet is consolidated just off of japan. Take China. Don’t worry about Eastern Russia to the North; just build a suitable wall for now.

Every Turn buy three tanks, one destroyer and one infantry.

Place the tanks in Shanghai, destroyer with the fleet, and infantry in Japan.

Depending on what has already happened, or the way things unfold in India, You should have no problems taking Sinkiang, India and Buryatia within 2-3 turns. The only real mainland defense is India; an obstacle you can either ignore by going through Sinkiang or the longer route north, or simply power through with your massive air force (up to 7 fighters and 1 bomber without buying)at your leisure.

With 3 tanks per turn and your air force on the mainland, you can easily get to the Caucasus and either help your German counterpart squeeze it to death, or reinforce it against moscow. Either way, once you meet the German player over the Caucasus, moscow will fall quickly.

after moscow falls you will find yourself able to turn all your tanks back around and either take out India if you haven’t already done so or protect against a mainland invasion from the US.

move your planes back to the fleet.

At this point you should also be rolling in IPCs, despite the fact that you’ve lost a few islands, and be able to put all of them to work building up your navy. Unless the US player is foolish, your fleet should be intact after your adventures on the mainland, and with a steady addition of one destroyer per turn, you should look pretty formidable.

If you want to keep playing beyond this point, you’ll find that the US fleet will probably try a last-ditch all out sea battle with everything it’s got. that’s fine. if the US wins, it will only be by one or two boats, and any chance of taking Japan will be diminished, given that you’ve been steadily putting in infantry into Japan. With the addition of your air force to the sea battle it probably won’t reach this point, but if you are unable to get your planes back to the carriers in time for the big battle, get them back to Japan ASAP.

Once the US fleet is destroyed, move what’s left of your fleet to just off the Western U.S. to prevent further sea unit building in the pacific (keep an eye on sea units coming through the canal though). Bring battleships in for bombardments and slowly weaken western US for invasion purposes. Have several waves of transports, and a solid air force to back them time after time.

By the time you are ready for invasion, Germany will be harassing the Eastern US.

It will take a long time, but given Japan and Germany’s combined IPCs, US will fall in time.

HAVE FUN

[88 Millimeter]

Hey Tri- the only amendment I’d make to this- and I’ve learned it through alot of trial and error- is to take it easy on the armor. Lately I’ve been playing Japan with 2 ICs (usually FIC and India, FIC and Kwangtung if India’s not an option). With at the very least 4 Transports, you now have 14 units you can push into Asia every turn. The vast majority should be Infantry. An Art or Arm when you have an extra 1 or 2 IPCs is nice, but with the airforce you start with you’re all set with almost all Infantry. You’d be surprised how much bigger you get. With Armor you’re always a little worried about getting too close to Russian stacks, as they’ll happily trade their Infantry for Armor anyday. But trading Inf for Inf is another matter entirely, and entirely worth it for Japan.

As far as the navy goes- if the British sub takes out your sub, AND the Russians have stacked 6 Inf in Buryatia, why not club the Russians over the head with everything you’ve got? 6 Russian Infantry is a tough loss, and you can still attack China with 4 Inf and 2 Ftrs. Leave 1 Inf in FIC, and with 4 Transports and a combined in SZ 60 you can wallop or reinforce FIC in J2, take India on J3, and start pressuring the Caucasus soon thereafter. If I were going to add any navy beyond transports it would be subs, and then only if the U.S. were building in the Pacific. And if they are, then watch out for Germany because they should be able to expand into Africa more effectively.

[Octopus]

Tri,

you have the right idea.  You are coming very close to a few conclusions I drew a while ago.

Note: There is even more potential with Japan than what you have written.

Keep going down your path.

This is why I believe the Axis are unstoppable, and by a large amount.

[triforce]

@88:

Hey Tri- the only amendment I’d make to this- and I’ve learned it through alot of trial and error- is to take it easy on the armor. Lately I’ve been playing Japan with 2 ICs (usually FIC and India, FIC and Kwangtung if India’s not an option). With at the very least 4 Transports, you now have 14 units you can push into Asia every turn. The vast majority should be Infantry. An Art or Arm when you have an extra 1 or 2 IPCs is nice, but with the airforce you start with you’re all set with almost all Infantry. You’d be surprised how much bigger you get. With Armor you’re always a little worried about getting too close to Russian stacks, as they’ll happily trade their Infantry for Armor anyday. But trading Inf for Inf is another matter entirely, and entirely worth it for Japan.

As far as the navy goes- if the British sub takes out your sub, AND the Russians have stacked 6 Inf in Buryatia, why not club the Russians over the head with everything you’ve got? 6 Russian Infantry is a tough loss, and you can still attack China with 4 Inf and 2 Ftrs. Leave 1 Inf in FIC, and with 4 Transports and a combined in SZ 60 you can wallop or reinforce FIC in J2, take India on J3, and start pressuring the Caucasus soon thereafter. If I were going to add any navy beyond transports it would be subs, and then only if the U.S. were building in the Pacific. And if they are, then watch out for Germany because they should be able to expand into Africa more effectively.

I agree about clobbering Russia.  East USSR is far to easy a target for Japan to just let it set.  The easy IPC’s is a nice reward as well.

[Perry]

I would still argue that you should kill the Pearl fleet…The Japs will just kill more than they lose imo.

After that - if the US tries to sneak into an island with his surviving fleet (BB,trn) - why letting it take islands? Just close in for the kill with your capital ships …

Now if US actually builds a fleet in the Pac - let him! It’ll take more time for him to make headway towards Japan, than it takes for Japan to make headway into Asia…The islands you’ll potentially loose in the Pac , you can replace with IPCs from Asia…

[triforce]

The reason for not doing that is that naval units do better on defense.  Besides the US has the resources to rebuild their fleet right away, Japan does not.  By the time Japan replaces its fleet, the battle in Asia is lost (nothing going that way, its all going to the fleet), and USA is knocking at Tokyo’s door.  Game over.

[General Mayhem]

This is very interesting. I don’t think I’ve ever played a game where Japan didn’t even try to sink the Pearl fleet. I look forward to giving this strategy a try.

[trihero]

Don’t keep us waiting too long Octo. I’ve personally already tried a few variations on Japan (double complex start, complex/tran split start, full tran start), all pushing hard for Russia, and it’s more common that I’m too late to win the game for the Axis than it is this huge advantage you speak of : O

[triforce]

Just thought I give this old thread a bump and see if there are any new thoughts on it.  I have a game comming up in about two weeks and I know there is some new blood (newer than this thread anyway) in here.  Look forward to hearing what you think! :-D

[Nix]

killing japan seems to be even more unfashionable then before, so i would add, that you should hit earl massivly and then do more or lesss as you describe…  - the dest if us doesn´t counter.

But i have another playstylr i think with japan, goes for rapid expansion and multiple IC´s.

[AxisOfEvil]

I have a couple of points on this thread.

First off, if there are other targets of opportunity on Japan r1, i don’t hesitate in letting the US pearl fleet live. i don’t think the pearl is a must hit in every situation. Cases where the allies are stacking India, maybe an IC built there, and stacking bury. When there is a red stack of inf in Bury, i like nothing more then destroying them. But if better targets arent available, you have to kill that fleet. AC and fighter are too juicey to pass up.

Second, producing only 3 tanks and 1 inf per round isnt going to generate the kind of pressure in asia you want. If the allies decide to put up resistance in India/China/bury, you wont be able to push with those forces alone on that, and if they don’t resist that strongly, you need more force at moscow/cauc doorstep than that. There will be several rounds you swap terr with Russia. And as a previous post noted, you want to swap inf with them instead of tanks. Russia will give up and inf for a tank anyday.

Third, As I have stated in other threads, i think a r1 Factory buy is a mistake. You already have one factory that produces 8 units per turn. when you buy the second, you can produce 11 units per turn. Japan isn’t ready to produce 11 land units to asia per turn by r1. So why buy the factory if you have not yet maximized the production potential you started the game with?

Fourth -  I think your example assume the us is building navy to kill you with? otherwise, if the usa has pulled out of the pacific, no reason to turtle them. Even if they are building up navy, you still have time to do things like take Australia.

[daggaz]

J1 IC is too early, unless you got a 1dollar bid and bought two trannies as well.

If you are building a destroyer each round, I am going to freaking rejoice as the allies. WHat a collosal waste.  I will maybe build a sub each round as well as USA, just to unnerve you enough to hopefully spur your dubious purchases onwards.  Like you said, if Japan should ignore USAs fleet, why wont it work both ways? Its not like you are going to capture any territory, EVER, with a fleet of destroyers.

As well, only 1 inf per turn is far, far too little for Japan.  You need to be able to hold that land.  An IC in India and Singhai can chug out more tanks than you can, and they can afford them.  Plus they can hold them no problem if you are building destroyers instead of infantry.  But thats not even necessary if you are going to ignore India.

Why?  Cuz your attacking force is weaker than the force I am dumping into Russia.  Caucuses alone can be fortified with 2 tanks and a man, plus allied fighters, each and every turn.  And Russia WILL have the money to spare if you arent even going to make a bid for those measly eastern territories, which DO add up.  And thats just Russian ground troops.  USA and England will definitely be shucking loads of troops into Norway and down the same route you are trying to take, only, they are doing it with more men.  Plus, when the shuck really gets going, Germany is forced to fall back somewhat from the eastern front, as those supply lines can just as easily (and usually do) invade France at a point.

In the mean time, Russia can easily hold out against the Germans and even turn their eyes Eastwards.

Not to mention, my typical E1 moves involve harrassing and sinking as much Japanese navy as possible. Are you really going to ignore all those boats?  Hope so.

Sorry man, but thats gotta be one of the more subprime strategies Ive heard for Japan in a while.  Drop the destroyer purchases, and youve got a much stronger shot at making a good punch, but still theres no reason to take every single IPC from the allies as Japan while you can.  Which you MUST do because yeah, you are being outspent bigtime from the getgo, and thats without worthless builds.

[Jennifer]

Check the original date, it’s February 2006.

[AxisOfEvil]

Yeah dude, OP bumped a severely old thread!!  My bad, got to remember to check dates next time i reply!!!

[Nix]

it´s still a strong play, agains many oponents, and in some situations. (when us actually go KJF)

[triforce]

I knew it was an old thread when I bumped it.  I did start it after all, and I was looking for any new ideas since I have a game to play tomorrow.  My opponets are relitive noobs so I dont want to blow them out of the water.  These kinds of games provide a good oppertunity to try new strats with nothing to lose.  Sorry if it caused confusion or if I broke some protocall that I was unaware of.  I’ve been inactive for some time.

[Nsilva984]

im playing as japan this weekend and im pretty much going to abandon most of the stuff in the pacific other than borneo and phillipines my first turn im going to take china and put some pressure on russia, and take india with a massive invasion just to get the allies out of eastern asia, my long term goal is to make my way over to africa because the people i play with never seem to care about it and mount an invasion force against the US and England while germany holds back russia, only challenge is i have to do it quick before U.S puts all those I.P.C’s to use