My apologies. Yes, the submerge rule also is in effect with enemy DSTs.
But just like DST’s do not negate Super Subs attackign on 3’s, neither do they negate Wolf Pack NA.
Germany Navy, Again
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The Brits would have 2AC, at least 3 planes, 3trannies, and a battleship against the german AC, 4 fighters, a bomber, 2 subs, a destroyer, and a trannie. With just 3 allied planes in the mix, it is a 40-60 LOSS for the Germans if they attack.
Why would I attack to death? Any surviving German navy is a problem because it provides fodder for the airforce to do a lot of damage. I’ll just strafe and wreck say 4+ transports while losing no airforce, plus the UK has spent all this cash on pure defense in the water (carriers). That’s a lot of setback to them getting troops into gear for a very low price of 16 IPCs in the Baltic.
I don’t understand why people keep saying it’s not worth it for the German navy to trade for the UK navy. First quite obviously, you don’t get to trade the German navy for anything at all except perhaps 1 or luckily 2 fighters when they smash it on UK1 since you didn’t buy anything. Spend 0 IPCs: navy dies while inflicting perhaps 10 IPCs of damage. Spend 16 IPCs: navy still dies, but you get to choose how it dies and inflict possibly upwards of 80 IPCS in damages that are hard to replace (btl, carrier, 2 fighters, 1 transport if the UK decides to block SZ6). Second, like switch and I have been saying, it’s NOT easy at all to replace capital ships! The UK doesn’t have that great of a paycheck and if you have to spend it defensively on replacing carriers/fighters, you are giving Germany quite a bit of time to throw back the Russians.
Even if the Brit fleet moves within striking distance of the Baltic fleet in round 1, the Germans shouldn’t be able to hit it with anything except planes(in round2) if the Russians seal off the Baltic with their sub.
That’s still fine by me. I’ve killed a sub at no cost which still lessens the defensive value of the Allies. Carriers are horrible offensive units so the UK’s fleet can’t kill the German one.
Remember the whole point of a German fleet is to be suicidal and take out lots of Allied gear. I’m quite sure that building purely ground troops is the road to defeat since the UK and US will easily be dropping stuff all over you unhindered, and again a key point to which nobody has ever responded to yet: the money you think you are saving by not buying a navy is actually immediately being sent to defensive positions against the Allies since they will threaten Western Europe in a jiffy. You haven’t increased your offense a bit against Russia by buying all land troops since a chunk of it is needed westwards.
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Then the german navy is sealed and UK is free to load troops to Norway.
If no attacks came, USA and UK would merge to sz6. The strafe you spoke, wouldn’t be so effective as you think, the UK and USA can sacrifice for hits their destroyers too, I would never lose every transport for 1round strafe which I would guess and after the strafe no more baltic fleet. UK could even move troops to Archangel freeing more troops for Russia to hold the front. You only need the 2 AC and BB you can always get planes from USA, if I play USA I always buy more planes and more planes. 1st turn 2figs, after that always 1fig per turn.
Even that strafe could go horribly wrong Germans losing 1-2 planes. German navy can take only 5hits, after that planes start crashing down. Basing on that I would never take UK transports as casualty for Allies, USA dies first, after that UK destroyer, After that maybe one USA fighter. Why would anyone take transports down, and lose one whole turn for nothing.
This is turn 3, and already some Allies troops are in norway.
It’s really hard decision and it isn’t so damn easy to push to russia. I just can’t understand your points how is it so easy to push the russians down with only germany fighting USA, UK, Russia. There shouldn’t be even Japan, if it’s so easy to push 4-5 turns to moscow. Your opponents are weak or they don’t play well as allies, combining their strength is the surest way to victory for them…
My playing group, it usually goes to Germany keeping itself strong on eastern front, but not making some stupid I go alone to take moscow move and die trying it. Germany waits for Japan and allies rush to reinforce Russia or slowdown japan or come straight at German coast.
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Then the german navy is sealed and UK is free to load troops to Norway.
I don’t understand your logic. The sub “block” only makes it so you can’t attack the UK navy with your German navy. It has nothing to do with pinning the Baltic fleet down. I can still kill the sub with planes and link fleets in SZ7 if I wish.
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It’s really hard decision and it isn’t so damn easy to push to russia. I just can’t understand your points how is it so easy to push the russians down with only germany fighting USA, UK, Russia. There shouldn’t be even Japan, if it’s so easy to push 4-5 turns to moscow. Your opponents are weak or they don’t play well as allies, combining their strength is the surest way to victory for them…
And where the hell are you getting this? I have never said that Russia can be put down by the Germans alone. I have never made this statement ever, and I do not believe in it. I dont’ know why you’re making this sarcastic comment “there shouldn’t even be a Japan.” I never said Germany could win against 3 Allies, and he can’t. The point of the German navy is like I said so many times, just to suicide and delay, not to win.
I might as well suggest that YOU think Germany can win in 4-5 rounds just by buying all land troops instead of any naval purchase.
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If no attacks came, USA and UK would merge to sz6. The strafe you spoke, wouldn’t be so effective as you think, the UK and USA can sacrifice for hits their destroyers too, I would never lose every transport for 1round strafe which I would guess and after the strafe no more baltic fleet.
Ah but that’s taking a risk. Defenders choose casualties before defender rolls defense, so you don’t know if you’ll wipe out the Baltic fleet before you have to figure out who dies. It’s risky at best to lose anything but transports in the case that your defense rolls are subpar, because otherwise you have less good defensive pieces and risk losing even more overall.
If no attacks came, USA and UK would merge to sz6. The strafe you spoke, wouldn’t be so effective as you think,
Yes that’s true, and that’s the key to countering the German fleet. I never said it was uncounterable, but any strafe is good and the fleet has delayed dropping troops.
This is turn 3, and already some Allies troops are in norway.
That’s an infinite improvment over Allied troops already being in Europe on round 1.
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Aah, but somehow well ncscswitch post implied that Germany could take Russia alone, which I think is impossible, if allies play well. Well with lucky dices everything is possible. :)
But back to talking this, I understand your point for the use of German navy. I usually have sitted and waited for allies to attack the fleet, it’s really hard for them to attack and decimate the fleet and you defend better than you attack. When you are sitting you can counter easily the allied troops pouring into norway and destroy them, which makes UK buy more land troops. Don’t let UK stack them and attack you troops that is the worst case scenario losing your eastern front troops to UK :/
As for slowing down japan, USA sinkiang factory isn’t bad choice if you can make Russia to boost it’s defence.
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I did not mean to imply Germany taking Russia alone. I am a Japan player myself (see that rising sun over by my name?) and I assume a strong Japan push on Russia anytime I post regarding Europe.
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Yeah I have figured that out :), it’s sometimes hard to understand everyones point of view, because nobody likes to write every single thing that everyone is doing on the board.
Axis and Allies is almost chess w/dices. You react to your opponents moves and there are many ways to do it in the beginning, closer to ending the game, your early moves should have propelled to that direction, so you don’t have that many choices left.
Good game and fun. Many choices to do, harder for allies I think than for axis. But Germany is maybe the most difficult country to play, then Russia and after that UK&Japan come side by side…
Back to this point. Do you really by rounds by attacking with the fleet or by sitting in baltic? Best opponent to whom you want to inflict hits is UK pieces and UK is the only one who can with stregth attack your baltic fleet and still it isn’t easy to win for them and leave not badly damaged.
Is 8ipc too big loss for germany to even buy 1-2 more subs on rounds 3-5? Boosting the baltic, this makes UK boost it’s navy or even prevents them from coming to sz6, sometimes the threat of baltic fleet is more powerful than sacrificing the fleet early on for strafe, as Luftwaffe can have better options to attack.
Let’s move the topic onwards, what about the german med fleet? Comments on how you use them on turns 1-4 and do you buy more transports to med? My last game usage as germans for med fleet was this.
-Attack UK destroyer, transports 1inf 1arm to anglo-egypt
2.
-Attack Anglo-egypt if UK retaliated and destroyed the first german wave. Transport 1inf 1art/1arm (moved from france or purchase, but usually 8inf first purchase so have to move 1arm)
3.
-Buy 1trans 1dest
-Fleet stays put and transport 2inf to Libya
4.
-Move to ukraine 4infI made my move from 4th turn by taking ukraine with 10+ inf and kept it. 5th turn saw boosting ukraine with lots of more inf and armor and planes, so that it was fortress hex where to move to caucasus or west russia. 6th turn caucasus taken with lots of inf and armor. Japan moved from india armor there and landed fighters. 7th turn end game, moscow taken, might have been 6th turn don’t remember. And if you were wondering what my baltic fleet did, it got attacked by UK on turn 4, but got repelled and 1AC and 2planes survived, UK lost 2trans 2dest 1plane, I rolled very well, from 7 rolls 6hits :lol:
The med fleet is very powerful when you boost the second transport there, when you can bring 4inf to ukraine/caucasus front. But only having BB & 2trans is weak, and this fleet gets attacked by UK planes and USA planes. That is the reason why I move lot’s of USA and UK planes to soviet soil, to destroy the Italian navy, because it’s the game breaker for germans to break through the russians.
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I was just wondering. If you are going to conduct an amphibious assault on, let’s say Britain, and you have a BB, 3 dest and 3 trannies, and you have the ability to bombard land with your destroyers, is it possible to just go in, conduct shore bombardment and then retreat? I know that sounds like a wuss out in not actually attempting to land your troops, but is that method possible? I know that no one can fire back on ships conducting shore bombardment, but I just really want to know if i actually have to conduct the assault itself.
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When you land troops with Ambhipious assault, they cannot retreat, but only land troops. So to maximize your support fire just attack with 1inf and fire your support fire away. You will lose 1inf, but with those support bombards you might do more damage than you lose. 3ipc inf, isn’t much.
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As for slowing down japan, USA sinkiang factory isn’t bad choice if you can make Russia to boost it’s defence.
I’m pretty sure this is a bad choice. Japan should have no trouble running it over, especially if there’s no Indian complex/US naval fleet + backup Russian troops coming in. On J1 I usually have a stack of 5-6 infantry in China + planes ready to strike Sinkiang, so Russia would need to stack quite a few infantry to save it on J2. Even then, a production of 2 units isn’t going to stop Japan for any reasonable length of time, plus once he gets it, it’s a new location for him to build tanks from.
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But back to talking this, I understand your point for the use of German navy. I usually have sitted and waited for allies to attack the fleet, it’s really hard for them to attack and decimate the fleet and you defend better than you attack.
It’s true that your fleet is better at defending than attacking, but if the Alllied player realizes that you never will attack, he’ll just shuck troops almost whever he wants (norway, karelia, archangel, western europe) without fear of delay. If the Allied fleet does become too ridiculously powerful in defense then of course I would suggest just sitting there, but I really like to use the fleet as a bunch of fodder while 5-6 fighters + bomber wreak havoc on the transport system. It’s difficult for the US to get transports into action once they’re so far out there.
It’s not a bad idea to just sit there with a Baltic fleet, since it does protect your capital and Eastern Europe from amphibious assaults nicely for quite a while; it does take longer if the Allies think they have to kill your fleet. I suggest that when the Allies look like they are about to crush your Baltic navy, then retreat your planes in advance so they don’t get caught out in the waters; they have already done their job by forcing the Allies to build a strong anti-navy force; you do not want to give them the bonus of killing two fighters out in the water when they could be sitting safely behind stacks of infantry. I would say just be prepared to attack if the opportunity presents itself and the math shows reasonably favorable results.
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And when you are trying to take the fleet down with all planes, what about the trading that you are doing with russia? Would you use tanks to push the trade through or try going very lucky with inf only attacks?
It’s not wise to give free IPC for russia, but too much material is making it very expensive for the germans too.
And about sinkiang, russia can free 3-4 inf there + 2fighters. My first turn buy for russia is always 1fig 1arm 3inf. That extra fighter is very important in trading with germans, it doubles the success rates for trading and 3 fighters is very versatile for russia. 1st turn is the only time when Russia can boost it’s offensive a little bit, and that is the extra plane.
Sinkiang won’t fall so easily, when on turn 2 there sits 2-4 fighters, british can boost it too. My favorite for british is that they build carrier and US brings the fighters, that way the UK doesn’t have to buy everything by itself and is free to boost it’s land troops or do something else. US and UK should play hand to hand to bring their power more swiftly to play. Where UK lands, US follows…
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Thamor,
The way for Japan to deal with a Sinkiang Stack is to flank it.
That multi-national force of FIGS there is great for defense, but can’t attack together. So Japan sends some forces to China (no real defense needed, just increasing from their 4-5 INF already in China in prep for later attack). But most of their forces go the northern prong (bury to Yak to Novo) or the southern prong (India to Persia to Kaz).
Upon reaching those points, the Sinkiang forces are flanked and the AF pulls out or risks loss.
THEN I take Sinkiang with the China forces.
Also, Russia FIGS in Sinkiang is a BAD idea for Russia. For those FIGS to attack and return to Sinkiang, they have to be attacking German forces in Caucuses (or Russia…). Otherwise, any use of Russian FIGS that started in Sinkiang leaves them elsewhere, and no longer an issue for Japan that round…
US FIGS have to GET there… a rather time consuming matter. UK’s have to get there also, but happens a bit quicker.
Eitherway, if Japan decides to focus on their Central Asia prong, they can hit Sinkiang with 4-5 INF plus 4-5 FIGS plus a Bomber on J2.
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And when you are trying to take the fleet down with all planes, what about the trading that you are doing with russia? Would you use tanks to push the trade through or try going very lucky with inf only attacks?
Nah, I build artillery with Germany with extra cash. It helps with trading. I’m still trying to think of a good way to use the stack of tanks because usually it just ends up sitting there because I don’t want them exposed.
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Actually you have the planes in caucasus, you use the planes that go to sinkiang for trading in Ukraine and from there fly to sinkiang. This buys atleast one turn free buy for USA, and I would bring more planes to soviet soil from US, having 3inf 1arm after turn 2 and 1bomb + 1 fig to strafe the china forces is really good option. Yes this drains some inf from soviets for couple of turns, but I would strafe that china inf if it only sit’s there with no fig support. As for those flanking moves, yeah they are options but this factory would still be running for as many turns as it can.
Soviets planes won’t just be left sitting there they fly back to trade for ukraine and land back to caucasus. Optimum would be swapping 1 plane so that there is always one more plane in sinkiang every turn. And if the option arise I would hit that china stack and after that I could help the soviets hold the northern approach by moving planes there. Only route that would be really open is the southern route, but that cannot be helped much…
I love planes for US even if they cost a little for them, 1 plane a turn really helps out, and when the US needs to make amphibious assault or land assaults somewhere having 4+ fighters around helps a lot.
But you are pointing the obvious moves what to do with the axis, why are you so defensive for them and trying to prove that it’s impossible to prevent them. Just say what is wrong with these moves for starters…
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The sinkiang complex isn’t a good long-term strategy. Your 2 units per turn is going to get heavily outweighed quickly by Japan’s 8 units per turn, plus he has something on the order of 6 fighters + 1 bomber to start with and stack of 5-6 infantry already on the edge of China. And not only do you lose the complex, but Japan gains it! Plus he can bomb it for a couple of IPCs while he’s building up.
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OK, so even with your initial R1 buy of 1 FIG, you will never have 3 Russia figs in Sinkiang. At most 2 in a given round, some rounds 1 or none as they fly out to get used and land elsewhere.
THAT is the round that Japan hits Sinkiang with 4-5 figs, 1 Bomber and 4-5 INF.
And of course, in J3, my FIC tank factory starts spitting out units that can strike Sinkiang the following round…
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I know that sinkiang alone won’t hold the japans, but losing that factory really isn’t that problematic. The point is can you make it so it really slows down Japan. Atleast it ties Japan for some turns more, than freely moving through. It slows down Japan for very important turns, and sinkiang factory would have from turn 3 Antiaircraft-Gun from India :wink:
My point is that I am finding ways to slow down Japan, but not quit Germany for free reins. US would buy 2trans and troops to go against Germany. There is that really good balance that you can find with allies that will make it really hard for axis to do as they please, but it really does require very precise moving from Russia, UK and US. But if it’s done very well you can move the game towards allied victory.
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There is no way I am letting a Sinking IC exist past T3. At which point, TY for making my continental tank build 5 instead of 3.
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