Mechanized (MI/ SPA/ SPG-TD) vs Tank (Light/ Medium/ Advance/ Heavy) units

[baron Münchhausen]

Since their is many sculpts for all grounds units,
do you think it is possible to give a balance generic and specific abilities to each type of unit?

First, there is the basic stats for Tank units:
Light Tank (LTk) A2 D2 M2 C5, can blitz (Panzer II-type tank)
Early Medium Tank (EMTk) A3 D3 M2 C6, can blitz (Panzer III or IV-type / T34-76)
Advanced Medium Tank (AMTk) A3 or A4? D4 M2 C7, can blitz (Panther-type / T34-85)
Heavy Tank (HTk) A4 D4 M1 C8, no blitz, but 2 hits (see next post) (Tiger/ JS-type)

then basics for Mechanized units:
Mechanized Infantry (MI) A1 D2 M2 C4, blitz when paired to a Tk unit
Mechanized Artillery (SPA) A2 D2 M2 C5, blitz when paired to a Tk unit
Tank Destroyer (SPG/TD) A2 D2 M2 C5, blitz when paired to a Tk unit

---

As you can see, all 5 IPCs units keep the same A2 D2 M2.
All the mechanized units cannot blitz by themselves.

Is it possible to add some balance specific abilities to each units keeping this basis?

I’m just working on these ideas for example:
LTk get a +1 A/D bonus when paired to a TD, a EMTk or a AMTk.
SPA give +1 A bonus to 1 Inf or 1 MI.
TD get +1 A/D bonus when any enemy’s Tank unit is present.

A progressive blitzing capacity:
LTk can allow 1 Mech unit to blitz with.
EMTk can allow 2 differents Mech units to blitz with. (1 EMTk + 1 MI + 1 TD, for example)
AMTk can allow 3 differents Mech units to blitz with. (1 AMTk + 1 MI + 1 SPA + 1 TD)

What do you think?
Let’s me ear your suggestions, please.

[baron Münchhausen]

About Heavy Tank with 2 hits:
Just remember that two Artillery units A2D2M1C4= A4D4M1C8, worth 2 hits and providing +2A to 2 Inf. 2Inf+2Art = A8D8M1C14, 4 hits.
So 2 hits HTk is not so unbalancing. (2 HTk at 8 IPCs = A8D8M1C16, 4 hits)
But the 2 hits should be different than BB (because of the lower price of HTk).

Only 1 HTk could be damaged at a time during a battle.
So even when 3 HTks are present in a combat, you must destroyed a damaged one before taking a hit on another Heavy Tk.
A damaged HTk which survived is repaired at no cost at the beginning of the owning player’s turn (as a BB in Global on the purchase and repair phase).

To read more on this point:
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=31368.msg1206393#msg1206393

[CWO Marc]

@Baron:

Light Tank (Panzer II-class tank)
Medium Tank (Panzer III or IV-class / T34-76)
Combat Tank  (Panther-class / T34-85)
Heavy Tank (Tiger/ JS-class)
What do you think?
Let’s me ear your suggestions, please.

I’ve never heard the phrase “combat tank” and I’m perplexed by the concept of a tank category situated between medium tanks and heavy tanks.  Could you give some more information on what this unit is supposed to represent?

By the way, the phrase “class” is used for ships, not for tanks.  Tanks come in models or types.

[baron Münchhausen]

@CWO:

@Baron:

Light Tank (Panzer II-class tank)
Medium Tank (Panzer III or IV-class / T34-76)
Combat Tank (Panther-class / T34-85)
Heavy Tank (Tiger/ JS-class)
What do you think?
Let’s me ear your suggestions, please.

I’ve never heard the phrase “combat tank” and I’m perplexed by the concept of a tank category situated between medium tanks and heavy tanks. Could you give some more information on what this unit is supposed to represent?

By the way, the phrase “class” is used for ships, not for tanks. Tanks come in models or types.

I made the correction on the faulty expression.

About “combat tank” (which I found on another post), I changed for “battle tank” (found also on another thread). Maybe just cosmetics, IDK.
This category was for the better-built (top of the art) tanks of the late war.
There is 2 examples: Panther and the Russian alterego T-34/85.
It seems they were the best tanks on the field, combining: speed, firepower and armor.
They keep almost the speed and range of medium tank, have a heavier main gun, and a better armor than medium tank (T-34/76).

The Tiger-type and JS-type have bigger guns and armor but at the expense of mobility and speed. They are heavier than the previous category (Battle tank).

There is 2 sculpts available: Panther and Tiger.
I wanted to give specific abilities.

In game term, the 2 types of unit should have this kind of difference:
A3D4 or A4D3 or A4D4? M2 C7, 1 hit vs A4D4M1C8, but 2 hits.
If you have a name for this category, I’m very open to change.

[CWO Marc]

How about calling them early medium tanks and advanced medium tanks?  “Medium” correctly describes the general category that the T-34 and Panther fall into, and the early/advanced qualifers would serve to distinguish them in the way you’re seeking.  “Battle tank” doesn’t really fit because the term “main battle tank” (from which I assume you derived it) refers to a post-WWII concept of replacing multiple tank types with a single well-balanced and very powerful type that would do the traditional jobs of both mediums and heavies.

[baron Münchhausen]

@CWO:

How about calling them early medium tanks and advanced medium tanks?  “Medium” correctly describes the general category that the T-34 and Panther fall into, and the early/advanced qualifers would serve to distinguish them in the way you’re seeking.  “Battle tank” doesn’t really fit because the term “main battle tank” (from which I assume you derived it) refers to a post-WWII concept of replacing multiple tank types with a single well-balanced and very powerful type that would do the traditional jobs of both mediums and heavies.

I buy it.

It will be more historically accurate.

About “main battle tank”, does T-34/85 and Panther-type tank could have played this role if such a concept was developped during WWII?

[CWO Marc]

@Baron:

About “main battle tank”, does T-34/85 and Panther-type tank could have played this role if such a concept was developped during WWII?

No because the technology available during WWII wasn’t advanced enough to produce a single tank with all the required features.  An MBT is basically a tank which combines the high speed of a medium tank with the huge firepower and strong armour protection of a heavy tank.  The concept became feasible with such post-WWII developments as improved engines and transmissions, sophisticated armours with high performance-to-weight ratios, and smoothbore tank guns (firing finned projectiles) whose lack of rifling allow more powerful propulsive charges to be used.

[baron Münchhausen]

Thanks for the explanation CWO Marc.

[crusaderiv]

light tank, medium tank and heavy tank is accurate.

You can add self propelled gun (anti tank gun) and heavy artillery (mortar carrier) and you a great selection of unit in your game.

[baron Münchhausen]

@crusaderiv:

light tank, medium tank and heavy tank is accurate.

You can add self propelled gun (anti tank gun) and heavy artillery (mortar carrier) and you a great selection of unit in your game.

Never thought about this one.
Getting a unit A3 or A4 D3 or D4 but moving 1 space?

Just wondering if an @4 unit at a low cost could be unbalancing the game?