Paris Riots

[El Jefe]

@Chengora:

…the ineffectiveness of the death penalty and gun ownership in deterring crime.

The “ineffectiveness of the death penalty” is created by all the liberalsand lib judgeswho hve given greater privileges and a safer environment to all the prisoners on Death Row… instead of the death the public/jury of their peers intended.

---

Back to enjoying the fiddler… I thought of that about 4 days ago…Nero(Chirac) fiddlling while Rome(Paris) burned, but didn’t say or fora or blog it anywhar.   So I saw it in the paper Sunday… which means I thought it about the same time the editorialist was tapping his lil plastic buttons.

France lets cheap(Muslim) labor come into their country since shortly after WWII with little required except to pay taxes.
Low paying jobs, no requirement to learn French or get a better education.  The kids learn French and to despise the decadence of the filthy infidels.  However, the Muslim culture remains separate and becomes 10% of the voting public. Â

Any wonder why Chirac stayed out of the WoT(War on Terrorism) and received a majority of the liberal and Muslim vote to win reelection.

Concerns arise over identifying people/suspects.  The burka is banned as it hids the sex as well as the features of the burkaed.  Mulims take this as another slap.  Not to mention unemployment…due to a low education level or poor French language skills.  Are the French Muslims complaining about low unemployment payments as the Mullah who was kicked out of Britain did??

Riots in 300 small communities in and around Paris and a (Molotov…sp?)bomb making factory do not lead one to believe in spontaneous anger outbursts.

Plus, similar disruptions in Germany and Belgium.

I understand the liberal politicians are complaining about a need for more communication with the disaffected minorities, more jobs and job training.

If this were Bush country the military would already be restoring order(and no jokes about 120,000 dead civilians-by lib count, please.)

[Rune Blade]

After all, in terms of contribution to the national debt, Red states are generally in the hole while Blue ones are in the black.

Dude, Blue states contain all the big cities.  Big cities tend to generate more revenue thus more tax dollars.  This is the only reason why the blue states would contribute more to the national debt.  It has nothing to do with conservative or liberal politics, just demographics.

The funny thing about these French riots is the fact that the political leadership of Jack in the box Chirac is doing nothing about it, because it allready has probably capitulated and flown back flown back to southern france to restart another Vichy France thing. If this problem happened in America, Bush would have sent in the military and we would be done with them. But France has no policy to fight against agression, rather it wants to appease itself with just “allowing” the problem to solve itself. No wonder they opposed Iraq…they have not the means to defend even themselves from revolution. Excellent!

Very well said!  Let’s keep our eyes open to the inevitable French surrender!  :-D  When the Rodney King riots ran rampant in California, did they spill over into the whole country?  NO!

When a goverment appears weak like the Chirac goverment, these riots will only worsen.  When you don’t confront it in the first few days, that shows how weak a goverment is.Â

Think Chirac will survive this incident.  I’m betting he might step down if there is a Paris left standing.

BURN FRANCE BURN!!!

PS: Imperious, check my site soon,  I’ll have SEALION’s map out there in a couple of days for you to see.  I won’t get the whole game done before thanksgiving, though.

Rune Blade

[Rune Blade]

Check out this link to Bill O’Reilly’s column on France.  It is very enlightening, even to liberals.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,174889,00.html

Rune Blade

[Imperious Leader]

OK Rune i will play that game for sure. Should the Germans have a few more tanks? I only see 2 for Sealion.

[Rune Blade]

Well, the rioters sure as heck aren’t white Frenchmen.  They are muslims.  Plain and simple.  I agree that there is a vast amount of racism in France that has finally boiled over, but the Muslim religious leaders in France have been pushing their aggitation onto their masses and now it has finally spilled over.

Also, a random drive by shooting is not on the same scale as total anarchy in 300 French towns and villages including Paris where these cities are burning.  We have law and order in this country when things go bad.  In France, well, they try their little appeasement approach, then they try to pretend that it’ll work out.  Result?  Billions of dollars worth of destruction.  Enjoy France.  Socialist policies do not work.

Rune Blade

[Rune Blade]

Imperious,  hit me back at my email address.  I’ll give you more info on the game.  Each side has reinforcment charts.  Yes, the Germans have more tanks that come into play later.  I can send them to you if you want more details.

Rune Blade

[Yanny]

Socialist policies do not work.

(social democrat…)

Britain
France
Germany
Sweden
Italy
Finland
Norway
Denmark
Netherlands
Belgium
Spain

Yeah… seems like some really unsuccessful countries to me.

The distribution of the United States actually makes the most wealthy country in the world look like an Agrarian nation in terms of level of human security. I’d quote you the line from the excellent book Sacred and Secular, by Norris and Inglehart (probably the two best empircal political scientists in the world).

[Mary]

@Rune:

Mary, once again your ingnorance is unparralleled.

For one, comparing what happened to Katrina with muslims burning cities to the ground is a stretch.

Sorry, I stopped reading at that point. Exactly which city has been “burned to the ground”?

[El Jefe]

I know it’s not just a Muslim/Anti-Semitic thing as my previous post exemplifies. However…

http://www.guardian.co.uk/frontpage/story/0,16518,1637465,00.html

and…

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/11/08/D8DON2L00.html

Many of these blighted communities are majority Muslim population.  This gives fuel to any fire the Fundamentalist Mullahs wish to ignite.

[Imperious Leader]

(social democrat…)

Britain
France
Germany
Sweden
Italy
Finland
Norway
Denmark
Netherlands
Belgium
Spain

Yeah… seems like some really unsuccessful countries to me.

The distribution of the United States actually makes the most wealthy country in the world look like an Agrarian nation in terms of level of human security. I’d quote you the line from the excellent book Sacred and Secular, by Norris and Inglehart (probably the two best empircal political scientists in the world).

He is speaking about socialist nations. Only France and Micheal Moore fits the bill as a true Socialist nation. Spain is getting close, while the others have some policies but are really “mixed economies”.And BTW a line from a book does not make something “the truth” in spite of sales to Berkely students or Rush Limbaughs book store.

[Imperious Leader]

France Elevates its Security LevelÂ

As many are aware, the French government recently announced a  Â

raise in its terror alert level from “Run” to “Hide”. The normal  Â

level is “General Arrogance”, and the only two higher levels in  Â

France are “Surrender” and “Collaborate”. The rise was  Â

precipitated by a recent fire that destroyed France’s white flag  Â

factory, effectively paralyzing the country’s military capability.  Â

It’s not only the French that are on a heightened level of alert:  Â

Italy has increased the alert level from "Shout loudly and  Â

excitedly" to “Elaborate military posturing”. Two more levels  Â

remain, “Ineffective combat operations” and “Change sides”.  Â

The Germans also increased their alert state from “Disdain” to  Â

“Dress in uniform and sing marching songs”. They have two higher  Â

levels: “Invade a neighbor” and “Lose”.  Â

Seeing this reaction in continental Europe the Americans have  Â

gone from “Isolationism” to "Find another oil-rich nation for  Â

regime change". Their remaining higher alert states are "Attack  Â

random countries (ideally those without any credible military)"  Â

and “Beg the British for help”.  Â

The British are also feeling the pinch in relation to recent  Â

bombings and have raised their security level from “Miffed” to  Â

“Peeved”. Soon though, security levels may be raised yet again  Â

to “Irritated” or even “A Bit Cross”. Londoners have not been  Â

“A Bit Cross” since the Blitz in 1940 when tea supplies all but  Â

ran out. Terrorists have been re-categorized from "Tiresome"  Â

to “Bloody Nuisance”. The last time the British issued a "Bloody  Â

Nuisance" warning level was during the Great Fire of 1666.

:mrgreen:

[Guest]

@Rune:

BURN FRANCE BURN!!!

Where are the mods when you need them ?

If anyone of the USies here -but SUD, who kind of responded to this blatant thing, although IMHO way too “bleeding heart”- complains about double standards, i will have to laugh in their face.

Freedom of speech? I think even Janus could not defend the above.

There must be sensible right wingers out there. But if you allow “friends” to crap into your house, and don’t clean it, then you have to expect people to complain that you stink.

As noone of his fellow contrymen called this idiot back, why should anyone from the rest of the world support any endeavour of you that we are not d’accord with?

Yanny: I find your behavior disgraceful. You fight against “personal insults” but you let that thing above un-answered.

[Guest]

@Soon_U_Die:

I really do hope they overcome this quickly and with as little violence as possible.
…
I also think that several of the previous posters probably overemphasize the Muslim connection and underemphasize the economic.

Thanks SUD.

[Janus1]

honestly falk, stop crusading. you insult the US as much, if not more so, than anyone who criticizes france/germany/anywhere else. personal insults detract from an argument, and they ruin the board for everyone. flaming stupidity, like “BURN FRANCE BURN”, only detracts from his credibility. you have different opinions from him. fine. there is a good chance hes just trolling. if not, fine. let him think that. its not important to have everyone believe like you, and hate the United States. just because your attacks are more passive-agressive and subtle, and his was more blatant and open, means nothing.

[Guest]

A small point, but:

@Rune:

After all, in terms of contribution to the national debt, Red states are generally in the hole while Blue ones are in the black.

Dude, Blue states contain all the big cities.  Big cities tend to generate more revenue thus more tax dollars.  This is the only reason why the blue states would contribute more to the national debt.  It has nothing to do with conservative or liberal politics, just demographics.

No, you misunderstand.  Contribution to the national debt is calculated by subtracting the amount taken out from the amount put in.  It doesn’t matter if you have demographically more people, if you have more debtors and failing businesses per capita, you’ll still be in the red.

IL, I’m not sure if Rune Blade really distinguishes between Socialist and Social Democratic parties.  But, then we can ask him here, huh?

By the way, CC, I know Norris.  She did some research for us a little while back.  Very nice lady, and you’re right, her empiricism is top-notch.  Not my particular flavor of political science, but very interesting nevertheless.

[221B Baker Street]

Looks like the situation is finally improving, although certainly not yet good:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051109/ap_on_re_eu/france_rioting_fr1;_ylt=AlI0CoP19CmVirRpoe4tVUMDW7oF;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

Hopefully this will finally die down now as seems to be happening.Â

But what can be done in France to prevent this from happening again?  What lessons can be learned that we can apply here in the US (or in Canada, UK , etc. as well) so that this doesn’t happen elsewhere?Â

The answers to these questions really hinge on the main point of WHY this happened.  Is it because the immigrants are mistreated or discriminated against (see the high unemployment)?  Is it because they don’t like the French (considering themselves something different, perhaps Algerian or even Muslem  :-o  )?  Is it some bad combination of these factors and perhaps other factors?

[Guest]

@Janus1:

…“BURN FRANCE BURN”… fine. let him think that.

Qui tacet, consentiere videtur.
And you even defend him.
And when did i “crusade” against the US the last time?
How much nationalistic BS did i have to suffer before and after that?

@221B:

The answers to these questions really hinge on the main point of WHY this happened.  Is it because the immigrants are mistreated or discriminated against (see the high unemployment)?  Is it because they don’t like the French (considering themselves something different, perhaps Algerian or even Muslem  :-o  )?  Is it some bad combination of these factors and perhaps other factors?

It seems like they consider themselves as very french, and just call for the rights than all Frenchmen have. That is, getting a job regardless of your name and where you were brought up and not being called scum.  If you hear them talking, they show a lot of french republican spirit, with a great knowledge of french history.

[221B Baker Street]

Falk,

Interesting to hear they consider themselves French - not what seems to be reported in the media here, although I have not seen or heard much about this point at all (granted that I haven’t had time lately to really look into what is happening). This makes it hard for me to form a considered opinion on the matter.

[Guest]

You can read it “between the lines” in these articles:

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,383858,00.html

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,383910,00.html

and it is obvious in this arctivle, unfortunately i didn’t find a translation into english:
http://www.zeit.de/2005/46/Paris_Krawalle

if you speak french, then you can look up the lyrics of the rappers “Psy4 de la rime”, coming from a Marseille suburb similar to the ones near Paris … they do give some idea what the rioters feel like
http://www.allparoles.com/psy4.htm

[cystic crypt]

@221B:

Hopefully this will finally die down now as seems to be happening.Â

Agreed.  I would hate to be living through this.  I am amazed at attitudes of some fellow board members.  If one of us said “drown New Orleans drown!” i would be outraged.  I really hope that the kind of misfortune wished upon others is visited upon those sadists enjoying this tragedy.

But what can be done in France to prevent this from happening again?  What lessons can be learned that we can apply here in the US (or in Canada, UK , etc. as well) so that this doesn’t happen elsewhere?Â

The answers to these questions really hinge on the main point of WHY this happened.  Is it because the immigrants are mistreated or discriminated against (see the high unemployment)?  Is it because they don’t like the French (considering themselves something different, perhaps Algerian or even MusleMuslim  )?  Is it some bad combination of these factors and perhaps other factors?

Excellent question 221b. 
One answer is “community”.  We are getting further from community throughout the world - and it seems that the more industrialized nations are in more danger than those that are developing.  My hometown of Winnipeg is nearly 700 000 people, however we have a “small town mentality”.  Everyone seems to be connected to everyone else in some respect and i am reminded daily of just how small this city is.  We have programs designed to enhance community spirit, and very active social programs designed to help immigrants to integrate well. 
Having said this, we do have our share of problems - aboriginal and asian gangs which have not integrated well for a number of reasons i could elaborate on later.  These operate outside the concept of community IMO and cause no end of problems. 
Perhaps religion is more a key factor than we wish to consider?  The places in my province where a large proportion of the populace attends sunday morning services have a very low incidence of this kind of problem.  Is it possible that increasing secularism with decreasing communal spirit combine to enhance the social isolation and desperation people are feeling?  Naturally “Christian” and “Muslim” services that promote violence and segregation rather than peace and helping out one’s fellow humans are not so useful . . . .

Oh yeah - and Imp-y - quite funny.  Of course you (as the whole world seems to) left out the Canadians.

"Canada increased it’s level of alert from “shear boredom” to “increasing taxes”.  Paul Martin noted that this is something that the Canadian people want, particularly as “they do not wish an election at this time”.  This is only two steps away from “increase diplomatic pressure” and “call a national inquiry”.
I grant - it’s not funny as at times it is so true it hurts.