Best Position…

[justus]

Which power has the best position on the board (geographically, militarily, etc.) and why. Vote and then rank them as follows, best to worst:

1)USA
2)Japan
3)Russia
4)UK
5)Germany
:-D

[Guerrilla Guy]

I would think Japan… they have substantial military forces massed on there fronts, few early game opposition points and lots of expansion options…

GG

[ZimZaxZeo]

Let’s see:

1. JAPAN
2. USA
3. UK
4. SOV
5. GER

4 and 5 are the most hemmed in.  The other 3 are all Naval Powers!!  It’s a watery world.  I might switch 1 and 2, because the North American redoubt is the one nearly unassailable position on the board - - Japan is more vulnerable.  But Japan is much more FUN to play!!

[theduke]

i think you need to qualify your question a little better. often the best position defensively is the worst position offensively. usa is the best example of this. they have the best positional defense being on the other half of the world than everyone else, but they have the worst positional offense since it takes them at least 2 turns to take any territory of much value. are you including economy in your position analysis? since position changes with time, and every game plays out differently, am i supposed to take a weighted average over all turns and over all probable game scenarios or something? i ask because usa starts off in the worst position but usually grows to ending up with the best. germany sarts off with the best “position” depending on how you define that.

[justus]

Ok, I’m qualifying best position as best position geographically…And if that’s the case,

germany starts off with the best “position” depending on how you define that.

:?
Duke, you speak the crazy talk. Germany is right in the middle of all their enemies, and if they don’t take land, they will be the first to go…Germany has the worst position (geographically) in the game. That’s why I ranked them last. Take or be taken, and I hate that crap. If your rolls suck, Germany frequently goes out first, though not always. No wonder they were so aggressive (WW1+WW2) throughout history. I would take Muzza Russia over Germany any day of the week 8-), whoop your a$$, and look great doing it :mrgreen:. Â

As for USA, geographically,

they have the best positional defense being on the other half of the world than everyone else, but they have the worst positional offense since it takes them at least 2 turns to take any territory of much value.

Wait, this is a bad thing? I see this as an advantage. Your capital is never really in danger as USA (except if I’m your opponent :evil:). It does take a few turns to get mobilized, but once you’ve established your shipping/transport lanes, America is truly a contender, and can do some serious danger. Besides, by the time they actually do show up, their opponents have been sufficiently “softened” from previous combats so as to make USA’s job that much easier. They don’t get action right away, but once they’re started, America is a monster…
Ah Tomato, Tamato, I guess…
In light of what I’ve said, this quote is quite telling,

usa starts off in the worst position but usually grows to ending up with the best.

:-o

However, all postees feel free to pick and rank the powers how you like and decide on whatever factors you deem fit, be it economically, militarily, politically, but please justify your answers so we can all enjoy and deliberate over your conclusions :-D.

am i supposed to take a weighted average over all turns and over all probable game scenarios or something?

I don’t know Duke, but it sounds like you got a problem there buddy. :-)

Cm’on people, get the vote out!!

[theduke]

As for USA, geographically,
Quote
they have the best positional defense being on the other half of the world than everyone else, but they have the worst positional offense since it takes them at least 2 turns to take any territory of much value.
Wait, this is a bad thing? I see this as an advantage. Your capital is never really in danger as USA (except if I’m your opponent ). It does take a few turns to get mobilized, but once you’ve established your shipping/transport lanes, America is truly a contender, and can do some serious danger.

so you agree that it takes USA a few turns to get mobilized. that’s more than it takes for any other nation so you agree with me that USA starts off with the worst positional offense. you’re saying that once USA gets mobilized they’re a powerful force to be reckoned with. i totally agree, but they’re so powerful because of their large economy and defensive position. so if you’re arguing that this future strength factors in to their position then you are including economy is your positional analysis. i didn’t know you were considering economy as a factor. apparently every factor is a factor in your definition of ‘position’ which makes we wonder why didn’t you just ask “who is the most powerful nation” right form the get-go instead of using this weird position talk. it’s too bad that you couldn’t be more clear with your initial post. perhaps you should focus on being more clear in your posts than being incredibly obnoxious with smilies and attacking others when they post something you disagree with all because you were too vague in your initial post.

i thought of position as current attack/defense potential and thus economy (i.e. potential for growth in later rounds) shouldn’t factor in to the beginning position. if you assume this too (like i said before it’s too bad justus inadequately posted his question and caused this confusion) then you could say germany starts off in the best position. they have the most value of starting units on the board and they can capture the most territory/do the most damage in the first round. that’s why i think they have the best position. obviously with this definition position changes over time via economy, purchase strategy, et cetera. this is why germany doesn’t have the best position for long.

[AgentOrange]

Economy shouldn’t mean how capable a nation is of making more money in the early parts of the game.  Economy, just as a word, means a nation’s net income during a set period of time.  More income means a stronger economy.  In this case, just replace “income” with “production capacity”, because that’s what’s important;  You’re trying to build a large army to destroy your enemy.

So in terms of the game, US easily has the strongest economy.  Can Germany take a territory, and keep it, throughout the game?  It’s very difficult, because they’ll be swapping back and forth with Russia, all while trying to prepare for the inevitable D-day, which happens when the US and UK get their forces ready.  Just like in WWII, the US may not have been readily able to attack anywhere off the bat, but once they starting churning out troops, tanks, planes, etc. they were a force to be reckoned with.  The US doesn’t really need to be able to take anything, because they can rest assured that they’ll be making the most money.  And also, because they’re so isolated, they don’t really need to commit as many resources to defense, contributing to the “war-machine” factor.  In this way, the US is a powerful offensive and economic giant during the game.

[theduke]

i agree with agentorange. germany probably won’t be able to keep much territory they take in the first round because their superior opening position will quickly weaken. if position means what you have to work with in the current round you are on, then i don’t think economy should be included in a nation’s position. if purchases could be placed and moved before the combat move of that same round then you could include economy as a factor in a nation’s position. but since purchases are after combat move, i think the current nation’s economy factors into a nation’s position on the next turn, not the current position. if, on the other hand, you want to define position as the average strength the nation has during the entire game, then economy would obviously be included in a nations ‘position’, but then again so would every other possible factor so then why not just call ‘position’ just overall strength?

[AgentOrange]

However, I have put up a topic similar to this one before.  Mine was actually “In a free-for-all, who would you say has the best position?”  The answer might not necessarily be the US, because there are no allies; every man (person) for themselves.  In this case, you might actually say Germany, (crazy, I know) because they have a great position with all kinds of fronts, and therefore, SO many different opportunities.  :wink:

[justus]

perhaps you should focus on being more clear in your posts than being incredibly obnoxious with smilies and attacking others when they post something you disagree with all because you were too vague in your initial post.

Gees, sorry Duke, just having a little fun, don’t get so defensive man…

And I thought I cleared this up when I said ‘geographically’ the best position…

Anyways, I can’t believe no one is voting for USSR. They are economically and thus militarily weak, but their geographic position is more favourable than Germany’s, and in my opinion, thus makes them a “stronger” nation…

[AgentOrange]

BUT, would you agree that Germany might be a little more favourable if it’s every man for themselves?  :?

[justus]

Yes, in fact our latest game is a free-for-all…

Germany got (yes believe it) U-boat interdiction and Wolf packs for their NA’s, and rolled one die for a 3 (super subs) on their first turn. I’m America, and I’m in a mad dash to combine my fleet so I can put up a defense against the impressive German Navy. If their rolls go well in the east, their Naval power will be enough to hold off any aggressor at sea, but we’ll have see how this actually works out as the game progresses (we’ve only played thru 1 round after initial setup). Germany looks harsh right now: they took Karelia with 4 INF and 2 ARM, West Russia with 1 ARM, and Ukraine with 2 INF, 1 ARM, and 2 FTRS. I’m not even Russia and I’m pi$$ing myself at the thought of subs attacking my still as-of-yet vulnerable navy.

So yes, Germany will do well in a free-for-all game, especially if they have the advantages mentioned above…

[AgentOrange]

I always knew that those NAs combined would make Germany very tough to handle…