Problems in the Russian Revolution

[vonLettowVorbeck1914]

First of all, a big thanks to Larry and Krieg for already doing a lot to make the Russian Revolution playable.  A lot of the background of this issue can be found in this thread, around page 12 or so:

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=30272.0

I am posting this here since it’s starting to get outside the scope of the FAQ thread.

Currently, the obvious major problem is that after the CP takes Moscow, they better hope for sure that they don’t take or haven’t already taken 3 territories adjacent to Moscow and 1 other Russian territory.

All the Allies (USA/UK in this case) need to do is land in Karelia, and then keep 1 little unit alive in Moscow through contesting it until Russia’s next turn, in which case the Revolution will occur and the CP loses Moscow without possibility of recapture.

To avoid this, the CP, even after taking Moscow, has to ensure that  they don’t take the free Russian territory so as not to make the Revolution possible, somehow keep enough forces on the beaches to repel super-moblie US/UK troops while trying to win in the west, or somehow keep enough units in Moscow to ensure that it is never successfully contested, while still somehow having enough units on the Western front.

The root of the problem is that as long as the Revolution removes one possible capital for CP victory from play, the Allies will be able to exploit that. As a CP player I would never want the Revolution rule, as an Allied player I’d be trying to trap the enemy in some devious way whereby them knocking a major enemy power out of the war hurts them more than it hurts me. Thus, one solution might be to have CP victory be as described now PLUS the other option of the Revolution having occurred + Paris or London…

The other option that I think is safer than that as soon as Moscow is taken by the CP, the possibility of the Revolution disappears. If the Allies want to deprive the CP of Moscow at that point, they have to take it.

What are some other issues with the current Revolution?

[Texas Holders]

I don’t think it would be that easy for the allies to land in Karelia.  Once the CP take Moscow, what’s left of their eastern forces can sit in Karelia since they are too far away to help in the west.  Artillery fire would help secure the beach.  German Navy in SZ 5 would also help as well.  I think the bigger threat is from India.

[vonLettowVorbeck1914]

@Texas:

I don’t think it would be that easy for the allies to land in Karelia.  Once the CP take Moscow, what’s left of their eastern forces can sit in Karelia since they are too far away to help in the west.  Artillery fire would help secure the beach.  German Navy in SZ 5 would also help as well.  I think the bigger threat is from India.

I also thought about sitting on Karelia, but the flip side of that coin is shore bombardment, although not really as potent as the artillery. Keep in mind that two artillery are needed on average to get 1 successful first strike, To really make that count is a big commitment. The problem is, to defend Moscow against the Allies even contesting it, Germany has to commit a lot of units that would be quite useful on the Western front or elsewhere, especially artillery.

Good point about India with its unlimited builds.

[Flashman]

The fact that the other Allies can capture rather than liberate CP held Russian tt helps to further erode CP gains in the east.

I still don’t understand why the CP have to keep a unit in every shared tt; these infantry could make the difference in holding on to tts such as Livonia and Ukraine.

I’ve also suggested that the CPs get a POW release unit bonus after the Revolution; 1 infantry each for every completed round of the game.

Whatever, the CPs should not be punished for capturing enemy tt, which is what the rule effectively does, though I doubt this was ever the designer’s intention.

I’m considering a different approach to victory condition, by resurrecting:

Victory Cities

Instead of capturing capitals as winning conditions, revert to the “Victory City” model.

There are 12 VCs in the game, each one of them being a production centre where new units can be placed at the end of a players turn.

They are grouped in 3 regional blocks:

West: Washington, London, Paris, Rome

Central: Berlin, Munich, Vienna, Constantinople

East: Petrograd(Karelia), Moscow, Tsaritsyn(Tartarstan), Bombay(India)

Victory conditions can be set at 2, 3 or 4 VCs more than an alliance began with.

So, for a +4 game, the Allies have to hold every VC for an outright win; the CPs have to take 4 additional VCs, but they must hold at least 2 each in West and East respectively.

In +2 or +3 games, the CPs need only 1 each in each enemy region.

Regarding Russia and Germany, consider that the power involved can continue collecting money and placing units as long as they control one home VC

[Flashman]

The UK should be shucking units into Karelia before the Germans get there. Once they get their 2nd fleet up and running, it should have a minimum of 4 transports working every turn.

Turn A: pick up 8 units in London, transport to Karelia

Turn B: return to London, pick up 8 units and drop in Picardy/Belgium

repeat until the Kaiser tosses in the sponge.

If the Revolution happens, this force can then retake any CP held areas in Russia, and Britain can be picking up 50+ income a turn.  A pincer movement north from Persia can trap the CP advanced armies in Russia.

[vonLettowVorbeck1914]

@Flashman:

I’ve also suggested that the CPs get a POW release unit bonus after the Revolution; 1 infantry each for every completed round of the game.

I wouldn’t really support this for the official game, but as a house rule that is really cool!