BotA Round 5 (Middle Earth): Lalapalooza vs AlexGreat

[lalapalooza]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: Lord of the Rings: Middle Earth, version: 1.6

Game History

Round :3

Purchase Units - Goblins
            Goblins buy 9 shooterss and 5 stabberss; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Goblins
            1 shooters and 1 stabbers moved from N. Caves to Eregion
            1 bats moved from Drimrill Dale to Eregion
            1 shooters moved from Wold to Westfold
            1 wargs moved from Lorien to Westfold
            1 bats moved from Drimrill Dale to Westfold
            3 shooterss and 1 stabbers moved from Lorien to Celebran
            1 stabbers moved from Celebran to Wold
            1 shooters moved from Anduin East Bank to Wold
            2 stabberss moved from Anduin West Bank to N. Caves
            1 stabbers moved from Anduin East Bank to Drimrill Dale
            5 wargss moved from Lorien to Anduin East Bank

Combat - Goblins
            Battle in Westfold
                Goblins attack with 1 bats, 1 shooters and 1 wargs
                Rohan defend with 1 lightCavalry
                Goblins win, taking Westfold from Rohan with 1 bats and 1 shooters remaining. Battle score for attacker is -1
                Casualties for Rohan: 1 lightCavalry
                Casualties for Goblins: 1 wargs
            Battle in Eregion
                Goblins attack with 1 bats, 1 shooters and 1 stabbers
                Elves defend with 1 hunters
                Goblins win, taking Eregion from Elves with 1 bats, 1 shooters and 1 stabbers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4
                Casualties for Elves: 1 hunters

Non Combat Move - Goblins
            1 bats moved from Eregion to Moria
            3 stabberss moved from Moria to Drimrill Dale
            1 shooters and 1 stabbers moved from Moria to Drimrill Dale
            1 shooters and 1 stabbers moved from Moria to Drimrill Dale
            1 shooters and 1 stabbers moved from Moria to Drimrill Dale
            2 shooterss and 2 stabberss moved from Moria to Celebran
            3 shooterss and 3 stabberss moved from Moria to Drimrill Dale
            1 bats moved from Westfold to Isengard

Place Units - Goblins
            2 shooterss placed in S. Caves
            2 shooterss placed in N. Caves
            4 shooterss and 4 stabberss placed in Moria
            1 shooters and 1 stabbers placed in Lorien

Turn Complete - Goblins
            Goblins collect 27 PUs; end with 27 PUs total

[lalapalooza]

Rohan vs. Saruman has become a bloodbath!

[lexgreat]

you use the multiple nation one-two punch well.

[lalapalooza]

Thanks! I do wonder if it was worth it however…

[lexgreat]

lol, just noticed its my turn, sorry!

[lexgreat]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: Lord of the Rings: Middle Earth, version: 1.6

Game History

Round :3

Purchase Units - Elves
            Elves buy 5 hunterss; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Elves
            2 hunterss moved from Rhudaur to Eregion
            1 hunters moved from Enedwaith to Eregion
            1 hobbits and 4 hunterss moved from Rivendell to Eregion
            1 eagles, 3 hunterss and 2 wizards moved from Cardolan to Eregion
            1 hunters moved from High Mirkwood to W. Mirkwood
            3 entss, 8 hunterss and 2 wizards moved from Carrock to W. Mirkwood

Combat - Elves
            Battle in W. Mirkwood
                Elves attack with 3 entss, 9 hunterss and 2 wizards
                Mordor defend with 1 orcs
                    Elves roll dice for 3 entss, 9 hunterss and 2 wizards in W. Mirkwood, round 1 :  6/1 hits
                    Mordor roll dice for 1 orcs in W. Mirkwood, round 1 :  0/1 hits
                    1 orcs owned by the Mordor lost in W. Mirkwood
                Elves win, taking W. Mirkwood from Mordor with 3 entss, 9 hunterss and 2 wizards remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Mordor: 1 orcs
            Battle in Eregion
                Elves attack with 1 eagles, 1 hobbits, 10 hunterss and 2 wizards
                Goblins defend with 1 shooters and 1 stabbers
                    Elves roll dice for 1 eagles, 1 hobbits, 10 hunterss and 2 wizards in Eregion, round 1 :  5/1 hits
                    Goblins roll dice for 1 shooters and 1 stabbers in Eregion, round 1 :  1/1 hits
                    1 hobbits owned by the Elves , 1 stabbers owned by the Goblins and 1 shooters owned by the Goblins lost in Eregion
                Elves win, taking Eregion from Goblins with 1 eagles, 10 hunterss and 2 wizards remaining. Battle score for attacker is 2
                Casualties for Goblins: 1 shooters and 1 stabbers
                Casualties for Elves: 1 hobbits

Non Combat Move - Elves
            1 eagles moved from Eregion to Rivendell

Place Units - Elves
            3 hunterss placed in High Mirkwood
            2 hunterss placed in Rivendell

Turn Complete - Elves
            Elves collect 19 PUs; end with 19 PUs total

[lexgreat]

One truly should do more math in this game, with those many factions. You can weaken with two or three factions and then kill with the fourth. I am not doing the math :)
But I like the map.

[lalapalooza]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: Lord of the Rings: Middle Earth, version: 1.6

Game History

Round :3

Purchase Units - Haradrim
            Haradrim buy 2 caravels, 2 rafts and 3 spearInfantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Haradrim
            1 raft moved from Umbar Coast to S. Gondor Coast
            1 spearInfantry moved from S. Gondor to S. Gondor Coast
            1 spearInfantry moved from S. Gondor Coast to Tolfolas
                  Haradrim take Tolfolas from Gondor
            3 corsairss and 6 spearInfantrys moved from Umbar to Umbar Coast
            2 caravels, 3 corsairss, 5 galleons and 6 spearInfantrys moved from Umbar Coast to S. W. Central Sea Zone
            2 caravels moved from Bay of Harad to Umbar Peninsula Coast
            2 caravels moved from Umbar Peninsula Coast to S. E. Central Sea Zone
            1 spearInfantry moved from N. Ithilien to Anorien
                  Haradrim take Anorien from Gondor
            4 corsairss, 4 oliphants and 3 spearInfantrys moved from N. Ithilien to S. Ithilien
            1 raft moved from Umbar Coast to S. E. Central Sea Zone
            2 caravels moved from S. E. Central Sea Zone to S. W. Central Sea Zone

Combat - Haradrim

Non Combat Move - Haradrim

Place Units - Haradrim
            2 rafts placed in Umbar Coast
            3 spearInfantrys placed in City of Corsairs
            2 caravels placed in Bay of Harad

Turn Complete - Haradrim
            Haradrim collect 21 PUs; end with 21 PUs total

[lexgreat]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: Lord of the Rings: Middle Earth, version: 1.6

Game History

Round :3

Purchase Units - Gondor
            Gondor buy 1 heavyCavalry and 7 towerGuards; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Gondor
            1 spearInfantry moved from Enedwaith Coast to Druwaith Laur
            1 towerGuard moved from Enedwaith to Druwaith Laur
            1 spearInfantry moved from Enedwaith to Druwaith Laur
            1 spearInfantry moved from Enedwaith to Druwaith Laur
            1 undead moved from Lebennin to Morthond
            1 undead moved from Morthond to Anfalas
            1 raft moved from Anfalas Coast to Morthond
            1 raft moved from Anfalas Coast to Morthond
            1 raft moved from Anfalas Coast to Morthond
            1 towerGuard moved from Lossarnach to Anduin Mouth
            1 towerGuard moved from Lossarnach to Anduin Mouth
            1 towerGuard moved from Lossarnach to Anduin Mouth
            1 towerGuard moved from Lossarnach to Anduin Mouth
            1 spearInfantry moved from W. Osg. to Anduin Mouth
            1 heavyCavalry moved from N. Enedwaith to Druwaith Laur
            3 caravels, 8 galleons, 1 spearInfantry and 4 towerGuards moved from Anduin Mouth to Morthond
            1 spearInfantry moved from Morthond to Anfalas
            1 towerGuard moved from Morthond to Anfalas
            1 towerGuard moved from Morthond to Anfalas
            1 towerGuard moved from Morthond to Anfalas
            1 towerGuard moved from Morthond to Anfalas
            1 raft moved from Anduin Mouth to Gilrain
            1 towerGuard moved from Minas Tirith to Anorien
            1 towerGuard moved from Minas Tirith to Anorien
            1 towerGuard moved from Minas Tirith to Anorien
            2 spearInfantrys, 4 towerGuards and 1 trebuche moved from W. Osg. to E. Osg.
            1 towerGuard moved from Minas Tirith to Lossarnach
            1 towerGuard moved from Minas Tirith to Anorien

Combat - Gondor
            Battle in Anorien
                Gondor attack with 4 towerGuards
                Haradrim defend with 1 spearInfantry
                    Gondor roll dice for 4 towerGuards in Anorien, round 1 :  2/1 hits
                    Haradrim roll dice for 1 spearInfantry in Anorien, round 1 :  1/1 hits
                    1 spearInfantry owned by the Haradrim and 1 towerGuard owned by the Gondor lost in Anorien
                Gondor win, taking Anorien from Haradrim with 3 towerGuards remaining. Battle score for attacker is -1
                Casualties for Haradrim: 1 spearInfantry
                Casualties for Gondor: 1 towerGuard

Non Combat Move - Gondor

Place Units - Gondor
            2 towerGuards placed in E. Osg.
            2 towerGuards placed in Andrast
            3 towerGuards placed in Anfalas
            1 heavyCavalry placed in Minas Tirith

Turn Complete - Gondor
            Gondor collect 32 PUs; end with 32 PUs total

[lalapalooza]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: Lord of the Rings: Middle Earth, version: 1.6

Game History

Round :3

Purchase Units - Rhun
            Rhun buy 6 fortificationss and 4 spearInfantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Rhun
            1 chariotArchers moved from Bight to E. Mirkwood
                  Rhun take E. Mirkwood from Elves
            1 warChariot moved from Bight to W. Mirkwood
            1 chariotArchers moved from E. Mirkwood to W. Mirkwood
            1 warChariot moved from S. Mirkwood to W. Mirkwood
            1 spearInfantry moved from Rhovanion to Bight
            1 spearInfantry moved from E. Rhovanion to Rhun
            2 chariotArcherss moved from Rhun to Iron Hills
            1 spearInfantry moved from N. Rhun to Iron Hills
            1 spearInfantry moved from Rhun to N. Rhun

Combat - Rhun
            Battle in W. Mirkwood
                Rhun attack with 1 chariotArchers and 2 warChariots
                Elves defend with 3 entss, 9 hunterss and 2 wizards
                Elves win with 1 ents, 9 hunterss and 2 wizards remaining. Battle score for attacker is -17
                Casualties for Rhun: 1 chariotArchers and 2 warChariots
                Casualties for Elves: 2 entss

Non Combat Move - Rhun

Place Units - Rhun
            6 fortificationss placed in Rhun
            4 spearInfantrys placed in Iron Hills

Turn Complete - Rhun
            Rhun collect 20 PUs; end with 20 PUs total

[lexgreat]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: Lord of the Rings: Middle Earth, version: 1.6

Game History

Round :3

Purchase Units - Dale
            Dale buy 2 lightCavalrys and 1 spearInfantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Dale
            1 spearInfantry moved from N. Dale to E. Mirkwood
                  Elves take E. Mirkwood from Rhun

Combat - Dale

Non Combat Move - Dale
            1 archers moved from S. Dale to N. Dale
            1 heavyCavalry moved from N. Dale to W. Mirkwood
            1 heavyCavalry moved from Lake Town to W. Mirkwood

Place Units - Dale
            2 lightCavalrys and 1 spearInfantry placed in Lake Town

Turn Complete - Dale
            Dale collect 9 PUs; end with 9 PUs total

[lalapalooza]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: Lord of the Rings: Middle Earth, version: 1.6

Game History

Round :3

Purchase Units - Khand
            Khand buy 2 raiderCavalrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Khand
            2 raiderCavalrys moved from S. Ithilien to S. Brown Lands
            1 warWolves moved from S. Ithilien to Dagorlad
            2 raiderCavalrys moved from Rhovanion to Anduin East Bank
            4 raiderss and 2 xbowInfantrys moved from S. Ithilien to N. Ithilien
            2 raiderCavalrys moved from Khand to N. Ithilien
            1 raiders moved from Harad Road to S. Ithilien
            2 raiderss moved from Harad Road to N. Haradwaith

Non Combat Move - Khand

Place Units - Khand
            2 raiderCavalrys placed in Khand

Turn Complete - Khand
            Khand collect 10 PUs; end with 10 PUs total

[lexgreat]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: Lord of the Rings: Middle Earth, version: 1.6

Game History

Round :3

Purchase Units - Dwarves
            Dwarves buy 3 axeInfantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Dwarves
            1 phalanx moved from Lonely Mtn. to N. Dale
            1 zepplin moved from Lonely Mtn. to Celduin
            1 axeInfantry moved from N. Dale to Celduin
            1 axeInfantry moved from Withered Heath to N. Dale

Combat - Dwarves
            Battle in Celduin
                Dwarves attack with 1 axeInfantry and 1 zepplin
                Neutral defend with 1 spearInfantry
                    Dwarves roll dice for 1 axeInfantry and 1 zepplin in Celduin, round 1 :  0/1 hits
                    Neutral roll dice for 1 spearInfantry in Celduin, round 1 :  0/1 hits
                    Dwarves roll dice for 1 axeInfantry and 1 zepplin in Celduin, round 2 :  1/1 hits
                    Neutral roll dice for 1 spearInfantry in Celduin, round 2 :  0/1 hits
                    1 spearInfantry owned by the Neutral lost in Celduin
                Dwarves win, taking Celduin from Neutral with 1 axeInfantry and 1 zepplin remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
                Casualties for Neutral: 1 spearInfantry

Non Combat Move - Dwarves
            1 zepplin moved from Celduin to N. Dale

Place Units - Dwarves
            3 axeInfantrys placed in Lonely Mtn.

Turn Complete - Dwarves
            Dwarves collect 14 PUs; end with 14 PUs total

[lalapalooza]

TripleA Turn Summary for game: Lord of the Rings: Middle Earth, version: 1.6

Game History

Round :4

Purchase Units - Saruman
            Saruman buy 2 orcss and 1 urukhai; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Saruman
            2 orcss and 1 urukhai moved from Isengard to Westfold
            1 urukhai moved from Westfold to Wold

Non Combat Move - Saruman

Place Units - Saruman
            2 orcss and 1 urukhai placed in Isengard

Turn Complete - Saruman
            Saruman collect 11 PUs; end with 11 PUs total

[lalapalooza]

Rather boring turn for saruman!

[lexgreat]

I dont know, I like the map, but the balance feels wrong. Goblins rich, Saruman dirt-poor, other nations actually useless (dwarves, Dale). Zeppelins and cannons for dwarves are very strange choices, these are not warhammer-type dwarves. A strategy game needs compromise, I am not attached to the idea that it has to be as in the books, but goblins should not be able to take Lorien so easily. Dont say it could not happen in a full blown war, but I feel they would need a balrog at least. The Eastern nations feel ok and well done, their mobility is authentic. Gondor feels stretched, also authentic. I think the main prob for me is that Rohan, Dale and Dwarves (who should have a stronghold in the Blue Mountains as well as in the Iron Mountains) never will be more than a very, very limited local power. Against a good opponent. Rhun is a bit similar. Saruman as well.

[lalapalooza]

Its definitely not a perfect map, and even though its gone through a great number of iterations and balancing tweaks it still has some problems. Having said that, watching expert players on this map I have seen both good and evil win in a fair fight.

The flavor of the map is such that it might not be that appealing to LOTR fans, but given the original map size/territory configuration, I do think the current power set-up is justified. If Saruman is too strong he can just overwhelm Rohan. If Rohan is made more powerful to compensate, then it creates the problem that their mobility and power can disrupt the balance elsewhere.

In regards to Dale/Dwarves, there’s a way to get them to be more than just always on the defensive, but it requires the Elves to help. The beauty of this map is that it allows the player the combination of 2-3 nations working together to take down one big one.

But I agree that at first blush the map does not seem entirely balanced, and only with repeated play does its depth become apparent.

[lexgreat]

I definitly want to stress that my remarks are not about overall balance. I totally agree that both sides can win.

[lalapalooza]

I think you’re up ;)

[lexgreat]

I am, but not before kid asleep ;)