Cool german opening

[lnxduk]

i was playing a game where i did my russian opening, and foiled this move, but i later found out how to do it. it’s rr +1lib
buy 5 tanks 2 inf, or 6 tanks
anyway, you pick up the 2 on libya, and move in to caucasus with the bb. bombard of course, bring in 3 men from ukraine, and 3 tanks.

north sea, send both subs, and 5 fighters optional strat bomb russia or optional hit tranny off of cananda or both if your risky.

africa
do whatever, bliz around

noncombat
move baltic transport to cleared north sea, move 2 infantry from western europe to finland. land 2 fighters there as well.

land 3 fighters in ee, and move in an aa gun.
move all infantry in germany and southern europe to eastern, and all tanks to eastern

you should have 5 infantry 1 tank 2 fighters on finland
4-5 infantry 3 tanks on caucasus (you can land a jap fighter here to discourage strafing or to take a hit…)
9 infantry 5 tanks and 3 fighters and aa on eastern europe.
6 tanks on germany (do this if you plan to clear uk transport) otherwise 5/2

you can hit karelia with:
19 infantry, 15 tanks, 5 fighters, and a bomber -1 fighter to aa

you can hit russia with
5 infantry, 3 tanks, 5 fighters, and a bomber -1 fighter to aa

remember that by R2 has lost 7 icps’s from strat bombing, so it has 17 ipc’s, builds 5 infantry. it is nearly impossible to hold both karelia and russia w/o uk fighters, and us/iuk bombers for fodder.

assuming russia doesn’t retreat from karelia:

germany can:
hit karelia, kill bombers, retreat to ee or caucasus!!
hit karelia, take it, land jap fighters there
hit russia with 5/3/5/1
stack ukraine and move a few inf to persia
sit where they are, and turtle from here.
<your idea=“” goes=“” here=“”>if russia does retreat from karelia, they can take finland with everything killing 4-6 russians for all that costly german stuff. hoping to take karelia again with a counter from finland and russia. (my favorite move)
they can strafe caucasus
they can take caucasus, and attempt to take karelia from a counter

japan makes attacking russia it’s #1 priority
that means yakut turn 1 and amphibious to sfe

this strat works especially well when russia stacks yakut turn 1 and doesn’t move the eventki men to russia and even moves some men on russia to novo

maybe japan can leave some irresisable targets for russia to hit, if they do though, germany will take they out… japan might be able to get away with stuff it normally cant do.

what do you think?
what’s better? this or my russian opening
i’ll tell you my uk opening next…</your>

[Dirt Baller]

That’s an unusual (and cool) opening indeed. :o
I have to play it out on the cd to see what I can come up with.
I think I’ll hit Finland on R2, walk into Ukraine and let you attack Russia (put 5 INFs there). I should be able to retake it on R3.
On G2 you’ll probably retake WE from US (2 INFs) with ARMs/Planes. These ARMs should be lost in UK2/US2. You have to start reinforcing Ger and SE.
I can see Ger and Rus both fallen on the same turn.

(Both Karelia and Russia can possibly be taken in G2 depending on how well R2 did on Finland but I doubt it)

[Xi]

I take it you don’t play 2 hit BBs.

What’s +1lib? Is it plus 1 INF on Libya (LIB)?

What if USSR moves TRN and SUB to UK sz on R1?
Screws up the odds a little.
Where do you take the FTR from if you only take the UK sz with 4 FTRs?

If you don’t take out the UK TRN in E CAN sz I see …
2 UK INF,2 US INF and 2 US FTRs on W EUR.

On G2 you are down 3.5 IPCs because UK SBRed Germany.
In Africa, you are worse off than you thought as UK brought
reinforcements from IND on UK 1.

Some things to think about …

[lnxduk]

i am assuming ussr does move the sub and trn into north sea
you hit the uk seazone with 3-4 fighters both subs, and a bomber
you will clear with loss of subs another fighter hits the trn off of canada
doesn’t screw the odds up at all

"Where do you take the FTR from if you only take the UK sz with 4 FTRs? "
? you can land 2 in finland, so range isn’t a problem, what do you mean?

you buy 2 infantry 5 tanks, if they move in 2 infantry doesn’t matter, you buy all infantry G2, they may hold western europe though and yes, you lose africa, but you can take russia round 2 or 3, and with that extra cash, reinforce germany. Also send your tanks back afterwards to counter allies in western europe. With russia dead, even if germany falls 2-3 turns later, japan will be so powerful, axis can still win…. maybe.

[Guest]

Good way to lose the game on T1.

[Dirt Baller]

I think Russian can retake its capital on R3 if it’s fallen. This strategy will shorten the game one way or the other.

[Xi]

In_k,
If you lose a FTR anywhere which force do you short? F/N or E EUR?

Have you had anyone leave the USSR SUB and TRN in the KAR sz, move both to E CAN sz or move the TRN only to E CAN sz?

Keep thinking!!!

[Xi]

ZZZ!
That’s telling him, S_U_e!

MAke 'im go blind ,too. :wink:

[Ozone27]

SUD, all good points as usual, but do you have to be so mean :cry: ???

Germany is my favorite country in the game, and when I see them abandon Africa so quickly, I take it as a bad sign. It’s not flashy, but really your best strategy is go attrition in the East while trying to take Africa w/ minimum commitment & a lot of fancy footwork. Don’t abandon Africa–at the very least it’ll keep some of the Allies off your home territory for a few turns. At best it’ll be a quick PCP-jolt to your economy for several turns which may make the all the difference!

Also, don’t neglect Western Europe! Experts can get away with this, but for most players there is no “trading” to be done here. Add an INF every turn & station the Luftwaffe here.

Ozone27

[lnxduk]

@Soon_U_Die:

Ahhh…another World at War room quickie strategy… :)

On UK 1, they send their BB, sub, and maybe bomber to kill Ger Navy.

bomber doesn’t reach

2 Ftrs sink Ger tranny in Baltic, land in Russia.

tranny is in the north sea, and you killed all the uk trannys can’t land anything anywhere

and yes, it’s a quicky strat, and requires better than average luck.
i do agree that russia can beat this strat, but not the way you say. Once russia loses karelia, it get’s really bad for them. Japan lands fighters there on J2, and when russia retreats from karelia, germany only sends about 5-6 tanks or so, the rest are sent back to defend germany. Germany can build up karelia, and land air there with about 8 fighters. at the same time, they can send 10 tanks to counter allied invasions in WE. they build all infantry round 2. The allies may be able to get away with taking eastern, but germany can strafe it with tanks and men. as far as i’m concerned, without karelia, it’s bad news for russia, allies can’t ship stuff in. germany even has a fair (not great, but i got lucky when i ran it) chance of keeping their navy. meanwhile, japan can focus on taking asia fast since germany has bought it lots of time

what i would do as russia, is build all tanks, take caucasus, and build on russia. and then counter attack and crush karelia.

i would have to say the same thing, this strat isn’t optimal, but it’s nice to change things up once in say every say, every 50 games. I’d say it’s about as good as my russia strat. I wouldn’t recommend using it in a rated game, as it will not yeild as high percentage of wins, but would be a quick easy win if you are lucky!

I also like these strats, because it usually messes up their plans, and if they haven’t seen it before, they could make lots of mistakes.

Also, and more importantly, even if you never use this, i think it’s good to know about it just so you can figure out the best thing to do now, so you don’t screw up when the heat is on, and you only have 2 mins to make a move

can you at least agree with me on that last statement?

[Ozone27]

@lnxduk:

@Soon_U_Die:

Ahhh…another World at War room quickie strategy… :)

On UK 1, they send their BB, sub, and maybe bomber to kill Ger Navy.

bomber doesn’t reach

UK->North Sea SZ->Baltic SZ->Eastern Europe->Black Sea SZ=4 moves. BMR can land in Egypt (which you did not attack) or Syria/ Iraq.

2 Ftrs sink Ger tranny in Baltic, land in Russia.

tranny is in the north sea, and you killed all the uk trannys can’t land anything anywhere

Obviously in this case, it makes no difference whether the TR is in North Sea SZ or Baltic SZ. SUD’s 2 FTRs were very specifically ordered to land in Russia–a land territory which is open.

Also, and more importantly, even if you never use this, i think it’s good to know about it just so you can figure out the best thing to do now, so you don’t screw up when the heat is on, and you only have 2 mins to make a move

can you at least agree with me on that last statement?

If you mean that it is good to know about a move in order to be ready in case an opponent uses it–yes I wholeheartedly agree :D !

Inxduk keep coming up with the interesting strategies–just because people disagree w/ them here doesn’t mean they won’t work in your games!

Ozone27

[Xi]

Oh, yeah!
Keep us on our toes!
Make us use our brains … not just sit on them! :P

Good clarifications,O_7!
Shorten the gaps, please.
My scroll finger gets tired easily. :wink:

[Ozone27]

Sorry, I was quoting other peoples’ quotes of quotes. I’ll work on it…

:o

Ozone27

[Xi]

:o :evil: :P :lol: :wink:
Keep on keepin’ on, Oz_!

In_k,
Problems I see …

1. on R2, USSR will have lost 3.5 IPCs due to SBR (will purchase 6 INF),
2. you must play as Axis alone to guarantee the Japanese FTR,
   b) this J FTR move weakens the Japanese advance on USSR(ftrs are extra-mobile armor for the Axis), since the only one that can get there is FICB with no attack or an attack on IND[not toward USSR], an attack on Ssink would likely be unsuccessful,
   c) it’s hard to land JP ftrs on Kar if this is where USSR has made its stand[15+6 inf after R1, 21+6 inf after R2 conservatively,]
   3)all the units you MAY be there to attack RUS or KAL,
   4)as you will have to respond (if you don’t take out the W CAN TRN) to a UK attack/US reinforcement of W EUR (4 INF & 2 FTR will tie up your units in Germany.

Just a few problems. I’m sure someone will find more … even if they gotta lose once or twice to find 'em.

Keep thinking…it might make your opponents use a coupla brain cells! :P

[lnxduk]

thanks ozone, i didn’t think of sending the bomber through eastern europe, there would be an aa gun, but it’s worth the risk

and you are right, i misread his statement, i though he was going to land british inf on russian soil with the transport, but since the transports are dead, he can’t. He was actually talking about the fighters though

japan can land all it’s fighters on karelia J2, so that isn’t the problem the fic figher can hit sinking… but i would probably reinforce it with india as allies.

anyone who didn’t read my uk strat, read it, and tell me what you think.

[Guest]

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1. The uk can place 3 fighters in karelia together with the ussr fighters there is 5 fighters in karelia the first turn the secound turn 1-2 fighters from US also is in place in karelia making a total of 6-7 fighters in karelia

2. counter attack from karelia into eastern europe or caucasus

the plan will not work sorry!!!

[Guest]

no matter what people think of, everything can be foiled with just shear bad/good luck. I was playing against my friends 10 year old sister and she beat me. Basicly because she got 6 1’s in a row and I got 9 5/6’s in a row. Her parents REALLY need to take her to vagas.

[Guest]

she got 6 1’s in a row and I got 9 5/6’s in a row

The odds of that happening are literally one out of millions. Anyway, good players try to minimize the luck factor as much as possible.

IPM goes a long way towards this goal - the more dice you roll, the less average variance you will have (is that the central limit theorem?), so you can predict battles much better. Also on the attacking side, IPM will cusion bad luck so that you lose infantry instead of planes or tanks.

Also, timing can reduce the luck factor. For example, in Asia weak J players will go for several somewhat favorable battles a turn. But odds are that if you will still lose favorable battles if you do enough of them … not to mention that overly fast J expansion outruns the infantry supply lines anyway.

[BigBlocky]

SUD, the caucus attack with russia is key. Good disection with bullet proof defense in my opinion. But ya have to learn to slap down somebody in such a way as to elicit a thank-you from them :-)

Simply put, infantry wins games. Yes there are times to build all armour, usually after a few waves of all infantry so you can get the 1-2 punch. England can benefit from doing all infantry into finland, then lots of armour (build a good mix of infantry and armour hopefully a bit more than a full load to offer a range of transport loads), infantry move up to Karelia. The next round you have a potent punch from infantry in Karelia, armour in Norway plus an appropriate mix on the transports plus air power. However, when I do a wave of infantry then a wave of armour with Germany I almost always regret having over-built armour….

anon coward, bang on with the central limit theorem.

http://www.stat.sc.edu/~west/javahtml/CLT.html

BB

[shiny]

What’s to stop Russia from:

Take finland (kill 2 FIT, really, don’t care about finland) and Caucusus from Kariella? If they’re willing to leave 1 INF in Karielia, I don’t see how you can stop this from happening… They’ve got 4 ARM, 2 FIT, and 17 INF at their disposal… Sure, it would be VERY expensive for Russia, and they’d lose Kariella on G2, but Moscow is safe (as safe as it ever gets), and the USUK have an outside shot of re-taking Kariella on their T2…

I’d do:

8 Inf, 3 ARM, 1 FIT to Finland
9 Inf, 1 ARM, 1 FIT to Caucusus

I should take FIN with 3 ARM, 1 FIT left (ARM safe from counterattack, if UK kills TRN).
I should take caucusus with 1 ARM, 1 FIT… The ARM is toast on G2, but so what?

Land the FIT and build in Kariella. You’ve committed most of your forces to the Rusiian front, and you’re vulnerable for a USUK turn 2 landing in WEu…