"Diplomatic Actions": For example, paying for a Coup to flip a territory.

[AlphaKappa]

I think it would really mix up the game if you could pay IPC’s to attempt a Coup in either an enemy’s territory or in a Neutral country.

Perhaps you pay for a dice roll. The target roll would maybe be dependent on the IPC value of the territory and/or the amount of troops stationed there.

It should be easiest to incite a Coup in a territory with an IPC value of 1 or 0 that’s unguarded.

Perhaps inciting a Coup in an enemy-controlled territory would cause it to become Neutral, and a nation that makes a successful Coup in a Neutral country could then annex it.

This would make things really interesting as Germany could incite a Coup in, say, Saudi Arabia and then on the next turn, build a minor factory down there to harass Egypt and the Middle East.

Or Japan could pay for a Coup in Alaska to cause it to go Neutral, which would disrupt the USA’s income and bomber operations.

What do you think?

[oztea]

It could get messy, but would add some much needed flavor to the neutrals on the board.

[AlphaKappa]

@oztea:

It could get messy, but would add some much needed flavor to the neutrals on the board.

It should be kind of an expensive move, so that if you’re putting a lot of pressure on, say, the USSR, it wouldn’t be wise for them to try to flip Turkey or whatever.  I think several player nations have the potential to have the “disposable” income to pay for such a thing, but it would all depend on the circumstances of the game.

[oztea]

Maybe if you turn a country it loses a die rolls worth of its starting infantry (representing military forces that stayed loyal and were whiped out)

Lets say Germany sways turkey, but rolls a 5. They only get 3 infantry there instead of 8.

[variance]

Maybe pay $10/dice at the start of your turn (like tech), and if you roll a 1 the strict neutral immediately becomes pro your side.  So Germany could spend $30 for 3 dice and have a 50/50 chance to switch Turkey pro-axis, or USA could spend $30 and have a 50/50 chance of Spain becoming pro-allies.  That would be fun and i bet people would use that a LOT more than tech!

[americancyco]

I sort of do this already in my game but only with certain nations and a certain trigger is required before the nation is allowed to make the die roll.

[vonLettowVorbeck1914]

I was thinking something along these lines, except there would be two conversions. The first is to have the coup and have the country go pro-(your side) neutral. The second is to convert a pro-neutral that you either can’t or don’t want to get into.

[AlphaKappa]

@variance:

Maybe pay $10/dice at the start of your turn (like tech), and if you roll a 1 the strict neutral immediately becomes pro your side.  So Germany could spend $30 for 3 dice and have a 50/50 chance to switch Turkey pro-axis, or USA could spend $30 and have a 50/50 chance of Spain becoming pro-allies.  That would be fun and i bet people would use that a LOT more than tech!

That’s interesting.

How about this:
If you meet the roll, the Coup succeeds, and the target Neutral becomes Pro-[your side] for the duration of that turn only. So you need to plan it in advance and have at least one adjacent unit (in a transport or in a neighboring territory) ready to move into the target Neutral and claim it.

I think 10 IPC’s and might be too much, though… perhaps 5 IPC’s per die like R&D?

[variance]

@AlphaKappa:

@variance:

Maybe pay $10/dice at the start of your turn (like tech), and if you roll a 1 the strict neutral immediately becomes pro your side.  So Germany could spend $30 for 3 dice and have a 50/50 chance to switch Turkey pro-axis, or USA could spend $30 and have a 50/50 chance of Spain becoming pro-allies.  That would be fun and i bet people would use that a LOT more than tech!

That’s interesting.

How about this:
If you meet the roll, the Coup succeeds, and the target Neutral becomes Pro-[your side] for the duration of that turn only. So you need to plan it in advance and have at least one adjacent unit (in a transport or in a neighboring territory) ready to move into the target Neutral and claim it.

So the money you spend on dice represents resources spent helping agitators within the target neutral country get the internal situation to the point where the government is on the brink of revolution or collapse (i.e. rioting in the streets, trade unions general strike, etc.).  Then at that very critical moment in history you send in troops to “save” that country from the abyss.  It could even be just a single infantry unit of “advisors” since the army is on your side.  But you only have a short window to exploit the chaos, so seize it that turn or lose the chance.
Excellent foreign policy AlphaKappa.

[AlphaKappa]

@variance:

@AlphaKappa:

@variance:

Maybe pay $10/dice at the start of your turn (like tech), and if you roll a 1 the strict neutral immediately becomes pro your side.  So Germany could spend $30 for 3 dice and have a 50/50 chance to switch Turkey pro-axis, or USA could spend $30 and have a 50/50 chance of Spain becoming pro-allies.  That would be fun and i bet people would use that a LOT more than tech!

That’s interesting.

How about this:
If you meet the roll, the Coup succeeds, and the target Neutral becomes Pro-[your side] for the duration of that turn only. So you need to plan it in advance and have at least one adjacent unit (in a transport or in a neighboring territory) ready to move into the target Neutral and claim it.

So the money you spend on dice represents resources spent helping agitators within the target neutral country get the internal situation to the point where the government is on the brink of revolution or collapse (i.e. rioting in the streets, trade unions general strike, etc.).  Then at that very critical moment in history you send in troops to “save” that country from the abyss.  It could even be just a single infantry unit of “advisors” since the army is on your side.  But you only have a short window to exploit the chaos, so seize it that turn or lose the chance.
Excellent foreign policy AlphaKappa.

Precisely!  I’m glad you like it but it was all variance’s idea.  Nice and simple, and it represents a very interesting political move as you’ve so well described.

[AlphaKappa]

Would it be too easy if you get to subtract 1 from your Coup roll for every 2 territories you control that are adjacent to the target Neutral?
That would mean Germany would only have to roll 2 or less to flip Sweden after moving into Finland.

Would that be acceptable if the reward isn’t so great? Like, if only half the troops guarding that Neutral become yours (“representing military forces that stayed loyal and were wiped out” as oztea suggested)?

If this were the case, then I suppose each die should be a bit pricey.

How much would you pay per die?  What would be a good amount? 5, 7, 10 IPC’s?

[vonLettowVorbeck1914]

What about a situation where if the roll fails really badly, the neutral aligns with the OTHER side (Representing for example broken code or other espionage that shows the people in their country the rolling power was planning to overthrow them)?

[oztea]

Just don’t get TOO complicated or no one will ever use it.

[territory cost - die roll] + [# of infantry there squared] - [number of territories you control that are adjacent divided by number opponents control] / Turn number - number of national objectives you are acomplishing

[vonLettowVorbeck1914]

Yeah, it’s hard to find the balance between detail and complexity.

Just tossing this one out there:

Spend 5 IPC to target one enemy or neutral territory adacent to a territory you or an ally controls. The territory must not have a victory city.

Roll one die. Add 1 for every enemy or neutral unit in the territory. Subtract 1 for every territory you or one of your allies controls adjacent to the targeted territory.

If roll is 1 or less, you succeed.
1. If territory was enemy when you succeeded, the enemy may move all units from that territory 1 space to a territory friendly to him or her.
2. If units cannot move, they are destroyed.
3.The territory becomes a neutral power aligned with your side.
4. Place neutral infantry on the territory equal to its IPC value.

If the territory you targeted was neutral, remove all infantry on the territory and execute steps 3 and 4.

(Thus, if you attempt a coup in a territory that was already friendly to you, you will likely lose military support, which makes sense to me)

That’s the dirty version, my dog wants to go for a walk.

[Gargantua]

instead of IPC’s, I would consider “inventing” a political credit.

IE, at the end of your turn, you get X amount of Political points to spend based on how many victory cities the current country owns.

Then on your subsequent turn you can spend them on rolls.  3 points say is one roll?

theory being - that the side which is “winning” will have more points to use than the side that isn’t… and consequently, powers that are “not at war” do not collect politicial points!

[vonLettowVorbeck1914]

@Gargantua:

instead of IPC’s, I would consider “inventing” a political credit.

IE, at the end of your turn, you get X amount of Political points to spend based on how many victory cities the current country owns.

Then on your subsequent turn you can spend them on rolls.  3 points say is one roll?

theory being - that the side which is “winning” will have more points to use than the side that isn’t… and consequently, powers that are “not at war” do not collect politicial points!

Cool! And its not that much more complex than IPCs. Now see if my group thinks there is room for one more house rule. We kinda have a lot already:  :-D

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=29513.0

[Gargantua]

Option B to consider, a concept we have discussed before, is that for each territory you have “touching” the territory you want to persuade, you get +1 to your roll.

IE Switzerland, or Turkey, when surrounded, kind of have to negotiate with you… vs Argentina, who is 1000’s of miles away and alone.

[Redking]

I’ve been working on a system where you accrue influence to purchase factional units. The goal is to actually fight with proxy regulars and irregulars without having to engage in frontal conflict with other major powers.

The fun in this would be that you actually get to play the coup, via fighting with your proxy units, or by acquiring enough influence to stage a non-military coup.

[Red Beach]

This Idea seems more suited to a Cold War: A&A game.

[Gargantua]

I’mma send my Red Beaches at cha!