A good movie is to invade the Middle East with USSR as soon as you can.
HBG's Global War 1939 FAQ
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Wild Bill,
The country that the neutral is friendly to occupies the territory and claims the fleet(s). That’s how we play it anyway.
We keep ships listed as coastal on the coasts of the countries they started at. If they are moved, they have to stick to the coastline.
From what I understand, if a strict neutral is attacked it becomes a pro-axis/allied neutral. When a neutral is attacked, we have its navy placed on the board (if it was not already during the set-up). From thereon in it acts like a Vichy navy. It does not move but will fight if axis/allied ships (depending on who attacked the neutral) move into the sea zone. If the neutral is “liberated” by the other side and the fleet still exits, it goes over to the liberator. There is not an especially clear rule regarding these navies so we try to glean from the general rule regarding neutrals what to do with them. Hopefully Variable will be clearer than I am on this.
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Ok so in case of Recife (Brazil) if UK NCM a ground unit to Recife, then it claims the troops there along with the battleship & transport. Both ships are absorbed (become UK). The transport is allowed to go wherever (not listed as coastal), but the battleship (coastal) has to stay in either sz 55, or 51 along the Brazilian coast for the entire game.
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Say Italy manages to get a couple transports and a destroyer to Brazil before the allies activate any of the territories. If they wanted to attack Recife via sz55 they would have to kill the battleship first. So instead they invade Boa Vista (unoccupied) via sz51 with the intention of attacking the inf on Recife next turn. The allies can’t use the battleship in sz 55 to attack sz 51, because Recife wasn’t activated yet, so the BB just watches things unfold. The Brazilian fleet would be stuck in sz 55 until the allies could liberate Recife, or the axis kill it.
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Spain could become pro axis if certain events happen (Paris and one of the Russian VC’s are controlled by axis, or the allies attack it). So once Spain is pro axis if Germany or Italy NCM to Seville they would also claim the Spanish fleet in sz36. The sub (coastal) would def or attack only along the Spanish coast line (sz’s 28,32,34,35,36,&37), but the other ships are free to go wherever.
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Say Spain becomes pro axis (Paris & Leningrad are captured by Germany). The US attacks Barcelona, and then takes Seville before the axis activate it. The Spanish fleet in sz36 isn’t claimed by the US because it is pro axis right. The Spanish fleet is stuck in sz36 until either the axis liberate Seville (then it can do what it does in #3 above), or the allies kill it.
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Say that Germany gets impatient, and attacks Barcelona (Spain) as a strict neutral. The other two Spanish territories become pro allies, along with the Spanish fleet in sz36. The fleet can never become axis now, and is stuck there until the allies activate/liberate Seville, or it gets killed.
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Sweden would be like Spain as similar events unfold.
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In all the cases you listed, that’s how we play it (for lack of any clarification regarding neutral navies in the rules).
We should ask Variable to include more direction on this in the 5.1 rule set.
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Agreed, looking forward to 5.1, and an updated unit set-up chart (S American units?).
Here is some food for thought (maybe just a house rule).
If a neutral country is attacked (anywhere) if it has a fleet, the other side (axis or allies) can use the fleet along that country’s coastline to attack or defend (whole fleet basically becomes coastal for a time). The side opposite of the attack would just choose what power gets temporary control (most likely UK or Germany). It is still neutral until the capital is activated, or liberated by the appropriate side at which point the navy is claimed and the ships that aren’t listed as coastal can be moved away from the coast.
This would allow the larger neutral nations to defend their coastlines through attacks once neutrality was breached, or possibly move its fleet out of harms way. I’m good with how things work now (assuming we got that right in the other posts), but just thought that if a nation is directly attacked they should be able to use what ever is at their disposal.
I would even go as far to say that once attacked, if that nation has multiple territories, any of their ground troops should also be able to NCM move or attack within their borders. They would be fully absorbed once the appropriate power activates or liberates their capital. Just put them in the UK turn (they would have the influence in most cases for the allies, and everyone else is in UK’s turn), Germany (if axis in Europe) or the power awarded temporary control (closest ties politically?). Would also look at once you activate a nations capital, you are in control of all their territories, units and fleet (no attack needed), but that might be pushing it a bit.
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Interesting,
How about rolling for the neutral fleets a la Vichy? I think it would add a cool dynamic to the game as an element of risk/reward.
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I like how the Vichy rules work, it will give each game a different flavor. This was the first time we used such a rule, and it was very cool rolling for all the territories to see where their loyalties are. Rolling for the fleet was the best part, there’s just something cool about splintering the French fleet (although most of it gets scuttled). I was Germany, and rolled pretty good I got Marseilles, a cruiser, most of N Africa etc… The Free French kept N Algeria and the combined Foreign Legion (bad luck they all lived) has regained most of N Africa now (at least the allies don’t get paid for them Edit: just realized the UK gets paid for Free French territories). Then I rolled the battleship which ended up Free French too “OUCH” LOL
Our first game is on pause (3rd-4th turn). We haven’t seen Spain, Sweden, or Turkey come into the game yet, so I haven’t experienced their impact (if/when Moscow falls being part of a trigger for some to become pro axis). Looking forward to it, and then will have a better perspective of if the dice could determine their fate. As the axis I’m thinking no, I want those units LOL.
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For Paratroopers/flying commandos what are the guidelines.
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In order to para-drop do you also need to have other troops in the battle via land or sea (like G40).
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Do they stop at the first hostel land territory (think that’s how it is in most AA games). In G40 airborne have a limit of 3 spaces (inf launched from an Air base). Using the range of a bmr w/AB could give airborne units a very long reach.
2a) Are you allowed to para-drop on Paris w/o first capturing the hostel territory(s) in between (say Normandy). Same for Berlin, do they have to first take W Germany (first hostel tt), or can they just attempt an all airborne attack on Berlin w/o holding a territory on the continent? Russian territories could also be interesting if Germany builds an AB in W Ukraine or Romania and can drop on Stalingrad w/o first taking Kharkov for example. They could also drop deep into the Russian back-lands, landing bmr in Japanese held territories.
- To add to the above first hostel territory, it might be cool if rules allowed:
If you are attacking the first hostel territory via land or sea, you’re allowed to para-drop into the next territory making the assumption you will win the first battle, and follow through with the airborne mission regardless of if you do or not. All combat is set-up at the same time. This would allow paratroopers to go deeper into enemy territories, or get caught behind enemy lines but still have some restrictions not being able to fly over 2-3 hostel territories, then attack/drop. The first hostel territory would have to be attacked by land or sea (no multiple airborne missions to get deeper into enemy territory). You could also treat it like an amphib were you have to win the first battle or else the airborne battle is called off.
Example 3a:
Would allow you to amphib Normandy, and also Para-drop on Paris in the same turn
Example 3b:
Germany blitzes into Kharkov (first hostel territory), and also Paratroops into a weekly defended Stalingrad in the same combat move from an air base built earlier in Romania.
Example 3c:
The UK storms W Germany via amphib, and then does an all air commando raid on Berlin. Would force the Germans to defend both the coast, and the capital.Just looking at some of the scenarios like London could be invaded w/airborne only (unless #1 is ruled in) which is ok w/me. Berlin and Paris are land locked, but I don’t think you should be able to bypass the coastal territories and do Airborne only missions (allowing both the coast and inner capital to be attacked in the same turn might be ok). Same for Russian land grabs.
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Bombers do also get to roll in the battle too when dropping airborne units at its attack value of 8 or less right?
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If there is an AA gun protecting the territory, does it fire at both the bomber and airborne unit separately, or just the bomber, and the airborne unit is cargo at that point, and lost if the bmr goes down to AA fire. I think I would like it better if it was assumed the airborne unit jumped, and the bmr & trooper were fired on separately, but IDK. Should you be able to kill two units with 1 shot if you hit (bmr & trooper), or get twice as many shots firing at them separately?
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Are def ftrs allowed to intercept bmrs (dropping paratroopers) if the territory under attack has an operational airbase forcing them to bring in escorts? I don’t think this last one is part of any rule, but something to think about if your doing some dog fight, or air supremacy house rules (oh the possibilities are endless LOL).
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One more question…
Under sneak attack for japan, rules state that japan receives 35 ipcs if they when they declare the intent to use the sneak attack. Do they declare right at the start of their turn ( before purchasing new units ) or do they declare during the combat move phase? This will lead to different scenarios.
If they declare it at the beginning of their turn, they will receive the 35 ipcs before purchasing of units. This will allow them to buy more units. In the second scenario, they would have received the ipcs after the buying units phase and cannot purchase units using the ipcs.bump
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and thanks for the replies guys
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I’m sorry to rehash this, but I found this quote from Tigerman77 back in Feb which conflicts Variable in Aug. Both cases site that the Germans attacked Holland, making the DEI pro allies (same thing happens if Paris falls). Then they go on to ask if the Japanese attack the DEI, does it provoke war w/UK. I know that if there are UK/Anz units there (they activated the Dutch pro allied tt) it would definitely provoke war, but in Feb Tigerman77 states that any attack on DEI while pro allied (still Dutch), will be a DOW on UK, which would ratchet up the US income 25 IPCs. Did this change when the rules were updated to 5.0 between Feb & Aug?
Please see answers in red:
Hey i got some questions…
If japan attacks dutch east indies when holland is in german control does this cause a provoked declaration of warer with uk/anzac/commonwealth? I understand that all those dutch territories become pro allied because germany attacked holland. Just need some clarification
No. Japan would not provoke war with the U.K. in this case. Assuming no other provocations are made, the UK player could not declare war on Japan until turn 3.
It mentions that when/if Holland is attacked by Germany then all Dutch territories become Pro-Allies, I get that, but it doesn’t specify if Japan can attack unactivated Dutch territories (territories that haven’t been occupied by the Allies) without going to war with UK/Commonwealth/etc. I would assume that since it doesn’t mention it then its okay to attack them, but I know in the 1940 version if Japan attacks the DEI then that counts as a declation of war with UK/Anzac/US so I just wanted to clarify that.
If Japan attacks the DEI while they are strict neutral then there is no decleration of war. If Japan attacks thhe DEI while pro allied or with Allied units in the zones it will be a decleration of war against the UK/commonwealth.
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Hi dcafnf5,
Refer to the 5.0 rules and 4.1 set-up. It states that Japan declares the intent to use the sneak attack and ollect the 35 IPCs at the beginning of their turn.
- Sneak Attack: Japan gets a sneak attack that has to be used before the start of turn 8. At the start of the turn, Japan declares the intent to use their sneak attack and collect an extra 35 IPC’s.
I hope this helps,
Koba.
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For Paratroopers/flying commandos what are the guidelines.
- In order to para-drop do you also need to have other troops in the battle via land or sea (like G40).
Don’t think so.
- Do they stop at the first hostel land territory (think that’s how it is in most AA games). In G40 airborne have a limit of 3 spaces (inf launched from an Air base). Using the range of a bmr w/AB could give airborne units a very long reach.
We fly over hostiles and the limit is the bomber’s range.
2a) Are you allowed to para-drop on Paris w/o first capturing the hostel territory(s) in between (say Normandy). Same for Berlin, do they have to first take W Germany (first hostel tt), or can they just attempt an all airborne attack on Berlin w/o holding a territory on the continent? Russian territories could also be interesting if Germany builds an AB in W Ukraine or Romania and can drop on Stalingrad w/o first taking Kharkov for example. They could also drop deep into the Russian back-lands, landing bmr in Japanese held territories.
Fly 'em in and take what you will. I have seen no restriction on using them the way you mentioned. If the limitations you mentioned existed an operation like Market Garden would not be able to happen. The airborne raids you mentioned are very possible on Global 1939.
- To add to the above first hostel territory, it might be cool if rules allowed:
If you are attacking the first hostel territory via land or sea, you’re allowed to para-drop into the next territory making the assumption you will win the first battle, and follow through with the airborne mission regardless of if you do or not. All combat is set-up at the same time. This would allow paratroopers to go deeper into enemy territories, or get caught behind enemy lines but still have some restrictions not being able to fly over 2-3 hostel territories, then attack/drop. The first hostel territory would have to be attacked by land or sea (no multiple airborne missions to get deeper into enemy territory). You could also treat it like an amphib were you have to win the first battle or else the airborne battle is called off.
Example 3a:
Would allow you to amphib Normandy, and also Para-drop on Paris in the same turn
Example 3b:
Germany blitzes into Kharkov (first hostel territory), and also Paratroops into a weekly defended Stalingrad in the same combat move from an air base built earlier in Romania.
Example 3c:
The UK storms W Germany via amphib, and then does an all air commando raid on Berlin. Would force the Germans to defend both the coast, and the capital.Just looking at some of the scenarios like London could be invaded w/airborne only (unless #1 is ruled in) which is ok w/me. Berlin and Paris are land locked, but I don’t think you should be able to bypass the coastal territories and do Airborne only missions (allowing both the coast and inner capital to be attacked in the same turn might be ok). Same for Russian land grabs.
Good questions for developers but I like being able to air drop anywhere and everywhere without restrictions. Causes a lot of consternation among the enemy when it’s pulled off right.
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Bombers do also get to roll in the battle too when dropping airborne units at its attack value of 8 or less right?
No. Bombers are used as transports or bombers, not both. -
If there is an AA gun protecting the territory, does it fire at both the bomber and airborne unit separately, or just the bomber, and the airborne unit is cargo at that point, and lost if the bmr goes down to AA fire. I think I would like it better if it was assumed the airborne unit jumped, and the bmr & trooper were fired on separately, but IDK. Should you be able to kill two units with 1 shot if you hit (bmr & trooper), or get twice as many shots firing at them separately?
I believe AA kills them both. Hit the bomber, troops die too (like a transport at sea).
- Are def ftrs allowed to intercept bmrs (dropping paratroopers) if the territory under attack has an operational airbase forcing them to bring in escorts? I don’t think this last one is part of any rule, but something to think about if your doing some dog fight, or air supremacy house rules (oh the possibilities are endless LOL).
Have not seen a rule about this but I think it would be a good idea to be able to intercept.
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Thanks for your input koba as always your a lot of help. Below is how paratroopers (tech) was played in the Anniversary Edition which is the game we played the most until G40 came out. This is what we are comfortable with, so that’s what we’ll use as a base line for now. Although because the creators didn’t put any restrictions in to begin with, I think how you play it is probably their intent. Maybe that will change, or get refined in the 5.1 rule update (soon).
Think we may only allow the bomber to fire in the first round of battle (more limited role), and may reduce its attack value to 6 (more like a battleship doing bombardment). We will probably also allow for a conventional attack on the first hostel territory, allowing the airborne units to attack deeper like I mentioned before (more of a coordinated attack). May also cut the last line from below making airborne no retreat (like ampib units). I think I prefer airborne to be more of a supplement, instead of the whole battle. Maybe we will experiment with no restrictions later, but that would be a bear to try to see all the possibilities (there is already so much going on in this game).
Copied from the AA50 rule book
3. Paratroopers. Each of your bombers can act as
a transport for up to one infantry, but it must stop in
the first hostile territory it enters during a turn and
drop off the infantry, ending its combat movement.
The bomber may still attack during the Conduct
Combat phase, but it cannot make a strategic
bombing run in a turn that it transports an infantry
unit. The infantry unit may retreat normally to a
friendly adjacent space during combat.Edit:
BTW it says in the Global War 1939 rules (pg31-32 under Strategic Bomber) quote:
"They (bombers) can be used to transport 1 paratrooper or inf as long as both units start their move in the same territory with an (operational) air base. Bombers can drop paratroopers into an attack but can only transport inf in NCM etc… "So I’m confused does this means that you can’t bomber transport any special units inf in NCM (including airborne or commandos), or does it just refer to the paratrooper as part of the larger group (inf) because in NCM it isn’t doing anything special like attacking (hope it is the later, that’s how we’ve been playing, and special units follow the guidelines of the regular units in every other way I can think of). Can you say use a bmr to fly airborne units to a territory with an air base (or build one there in the same turn) to launch an airborne attack in your next turn. Can the US use a bomber to transport paratroopers to London, then do an airborne attack on Normandy next turn? Or would they have to load the paratroopers on ships, get them to England then airdrop w/bmr? Can’t see being forced to load US airborne on transports to get them to a useful place, so I guess its more of just a clarification issue. (interesting)
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Your assumption is correct. Bombers non-combat airborne just like regular infantry. So, yes, you could carry your ariborne to the UK on the non-combat move of one turn and then do the assault drop on the next. Pre-requisite of air base applies to both moves.
I treat airborne like regular infantry for all instances except combat.
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Figured it had to be that way. All the special units are still considered part of the base units, they just have modifications to their values.
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I have some concerns about the Russian navy. First I found it strange there aren’t any Russian ships in the eastern Baltic (even G40 has a couple there), thought at least a destroyer, or cruiser for bombardment/blocking reasons if nothing else. I also didn’t notice any restrictions on the rather large White Sea Russian Navy before the Russians are at war in Europe. In our game R1 it moved west towards the English coast and now its on the back side off the coast of Ireland. It just seemed like something out of the twilight zone for the large Russian surface navy to be off the coast of the UK, as they were not exactly buds before Barbarossa. If the Russians sent a navy of this size towards England in 1939-1940 wouldn’t they have seen it as a threat?
In the game it appears that the Russian navy will be used to restart the Royal navy, because the Germans aren’t going to attack it until probably the 3rd turn or so when they go to war w/Russia. By then it will be either out of reach, or be merged with the UK/French navy and quite untouchable. From what I’ve heard the Russian navy was quite large, but was bottled up for the most part, and restricted to coastal defense. Some ships were even dismantled and the big guns mounted on shore etc…
Just though this might be an area of concern, and maybe a similar restriction as the US navy should be looked at. Keep it coastal until Russia is at war in Europe? maybe give them a small fleet in the Baltic?
One quick question, if in say the 3rd turn Germany DOW on Russian started Barbarossa, and attacked the Russian navy off the coast of England, would the UK be able to scramble fighters to defend the Russian navy? At that point I don’t think the Russians & English are allies yet.
Edit: I didn’t see any restrictions for the Russian navy in the Russian political rules, but after looking through the rule book again there is a one liner on page 28 at the end of the strict neutrals.
*While nations are not at war, units that are moved must end their turn in their own territories or in sz next to an original territory.
So I guess that applies to Russia (think it should be repeated in Russia’s political situation though). So it is safe to say we played that wrong, so most of my post is irrelevant. Still wouldn’t mind seeing a Russian surface ship in the Baltic.
BTW at least the Russian sub made it on the board. Everyone knows that if the Russian sub survives the allies will win the war LOL
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Quick clarification, I would think axis powers can use an air or naval base in a territory that goes Vichy. Are the Germans allowed to build a fort or base on a Vichy territory? I know they couldn’t build an IC (not orig German territory). My gut says yes to forts, and bases, but I’m not sure being that the Germans aren’t allowed to take them over (unless the allies capture them first).
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Hey guys,
Keep the information coming! Variable and I are working on the 5.1 revision and want to really clear up any issues that are out there. Don’t get discouraged if we don’t answer right away or at all, we are listening!
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No problem,
I’d really like to see the pages numbered in the table of contents. Also, chapter three in 5.0 only includes the title not the subjects.
I like Wild Bill’s questions regarding Vichy territories and think some clarification on that would be good.
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Question about production and going to war.
I know you have to roll 2 12d dice for Russia to ratchet up war time production each turn (48). My question is that only dice count for this right, and if you capture territories like East Poland, or save IPCs you must keep a separate tab each turn.
Example: First turn Russia rolls 8 w/dice, and takes East Poland (worth 2) and Baltic States (worth 1 IPC). Russia’s war production total is 8, but their spending income is 11 IPCs for the next turn (8+3=11). Any income saved would also track with spending income.
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