@rommel13579
I also don’t use my mechs to attack.
Alpha 3.9 Favors Axis
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I think its to early for bid yet. Tried a bid game vs myself and a artillery bid in Alexandria simply crushed Italy. Killed z97,z96 and Tubrok at very good odds and still saved 2 fgt and a dd to clean up the damaged german battleship. Combined with UK fgt and tac flying from India to Syria.
I think allied strategy just is plain harder and more difficult to master.
PACIFIC
US/Anzac
My experience is that US needs to swing south in pacific and grab money islands. Anzac need to support them and not do any ground-unit buys at all. Stopping Japan is a attrition struggle, they cant defend all the islands with their super navy. Allies can get a very decent fleet in z54 (out of airsupport range) by round 3 (14 warships, not counting any buys, more warships that Japan start with.) Bring africa naval units to block of India.
Any waiting around in Hawaii after round 2 because its “safe” is a good way to loose the game.India
India do inf and mec only, 3 Anzac fgt flys India (r1 stack Java with 1UK fgt, 3 anzac fgt,1inf,1AA gun. More if needed). India considder if Japan going to DOW round 2 or 3 and moves tranny to either Sumatra or Persia, dont waste the tranny. India send 2planes to the med to kill Italy initiative early, dont let italy collect any NO, fight like crazy in the med.Soviet
Dont let Japan kill you infs round 1. Its not all or nothing in Amur, players send 18inf and 2AA guns back on Japan round 3 when they need only to send 10 inf and 1-2AA gun. If Germany is realy lucky and agressive considder sending all back but one, then you force a Jap inf to remain in Korea as well.China
Trade Yunnan, trade units, dont get hit by all Jap air at once round 2. Slow Japan. Wait for death…ATLANTIC
Soviet
Not going to talk much about Soviet here exept that they can attack Iraq and Italy territories in Africa to get +19 income. Germany is going to kick you ass anyway if you dont get US help in time (round 4-6). And dont buy anything but inf,art and mec.UK early rounds
Buy 6inf fgt r1. Dont scramble unless you will kill 2for1 ratio. Hit z97 and z96 always. Send India air to med. Force Italy back. Build mec in africa r2. Dont mind Germany yet, prepare from IC in canada. Buy alot of fgt.US/UK after Dow
Atlantic is a nobrainer with allies when you know what is effective. 2-3US carriers, cruiser (is there already) a fgt and a tac, a bomber, and 5-6 trannies (units there already, mabye buy a inf or 2) should be plenty. Drop 10 US units in normandy (always normandy first, to stop Barbossa) and reinf with alot of UK units and fgt (build alot of fighters when your waiting for the US to arrive).UK fighters on US carrier makes for some very fun and hard to predict moves.
Allies should be in Normandy 2turns after dow and force Germany to a super build in Wger. From there they can strike the capitol itself (US canopens denmark), Norway (-8 germany +3 US, factory?, place to land with all those UK fgt after killing the German navy?), France (if you can hold France, germany ignores you or something), stay and drop more units produce out of IC, med (should be no need if UK plays perfect round 1-2)
Make Germany suffer… You dont need to kill any units, simply the fact that 2 front war is a nightmare is enough.
The fact that your going to hit them unless they prepare force the punch out of Barbossa.France
Trade units with Italy, send fgt to north africa. -
Or to say it shorter…
Be offencive, attack if you can, play like a crazy man and trow all allied powers on axis at once :mrgreen:What is bad for one power can be good for the alliance :)
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Very well put Rommel. All the moves here are very sound. The problem with the africa move is I don’t attack with Germany till R3. By the time you get all of middle east and africa Germany has killed Russia.
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Russia does not usually die till around rounds 8-10, but should germany fail, russia making 10 guys a round no matter what… seals the game. It forces germany to attack as well instead of being chicken. Usually germany takes russia anyway, but it is all the allies can do.
Having italy convoyed out the game allows you to fly into russia and any stall there is good. especiall if russia got african and middle east territories. you can chunk out infantry/armor (to make 10 unit max, because you will have more than 30 income).
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I think its to early for bid yet. Tried a bid game vs myself and a artillery bid in Alexandria simply crushed Italy. Killed z97,z96 and Tubrok at very good odds and still saved 2 fgt and a dd to clean up the damaged german battleship. Combined with UK fgt and tac flying from India to Syria.
I think allied strategy just is plain harder and more difficult to master.
PACIFIC
US/Anzac
My experience is that US needs to swing south in pacific and grab money islands. Anzac need to support them and not do any ground-unit buys at all. Stopping Japan is a attrition struggle, they cant defend all the islands with their super navy. Allies can get a very decent fleet in z54 (out of airsupport range) by round 3 (14 warships, not counting any buys, more warships that Japan start with.) Bring africa naval units to block of India.
Any waiting around in Hawaii after round 2 because its “safe” is a good way to loose the game.India
India do inf and mec only, 3 Anzac fgt flys India (r1 stack Java with 1UK fgt, 3 anzac fgt,1inf,1AA gun. More if needed). India considder if Japan going to DOW round 2 or 3 and moves tranny to either Sumatra or Persia, dont waste the tranny. India send 2planes to the med to kill Italy initiative early, dont let italy collect any NO, fight like crazy in the med.Soviet
Dont let Japan kill you infs round 1. Its not all or nothing in Amur, players send 18inf and 2AA guns back on Japan round 3 when they need only to send 10 inf and 1-2AA gun. If Germany is realy lucky and agressive considder sending all back but one, then you force a Jap inf to remain in Korea as well.China
Trade Yunnan, trade units, dont get hit by all Jap air at once round 2. Slow Japan. Wait for death…ATLANTIC
Soviet
Not going to talk much about Soviet here exept that they can attack Iraq and Italy territories in Africa to get +19 income. Germany is going to kick you a** anyway if you dont get US help in time (round 4-6). And dont buy anything but inf,art and mec.UK early rounds
Buy 6inf fgt r1. Dont scramble unless you will kill 2for1 ratio. Hit z97 and z96 always. Send India air to med. Force Italy back. Build mec in africa r2. Dont mind Germany yet, prepare from IC in canada. Buy alot of fgt.US/UK after Dow
Atlantic is a nobrainer with allies when you know what is effective. 2-3US carriers, cruiser (is there already) a fgt and a tac, a bomber, and 5-6 trannies (units there already, mabye buy a inf or 2) should be plenty. Drop 10 US units in normandy (always normandy first, to stop Barbossa) and reinf with alot of UK units and fgt (build alot of fighters when your waiting for the US to arrive).UK fighters on US carrier makes for some very fun and hard to predict moves.
Allies should be in Normandy 2turns after dow and force Germany to a super build in Wger. From there they can strike the capitol itself (US canopens denmark), Norway (-8 germany +3 US, factory?, place to land with all those UK fgt after killing the German navy?), France (if you can hold France, germany ignores you or something), stay and drop more units produce out of IC, med (should be no need if UK plays perfect round 1-2)
Make Germany suffer… You dont need to kill any units, simply the fact that 2 front war is a nightmare is enough.
The fact that your going to hit them unless they prepare force the punch out of Barbossa.France
Trade units with Italy, send fgt to north africa.Excellent!!! These are exactly my observations and experiences!!! Finally another voice of reason besides my own!!! Axis advantage??? No way!!! Your right, Allies actually have the slight edge…which I’ve been saying forever now. The problem is that the Allied strategy is harder to master in this game, but once they do everyone will see that Allies holds the slight edge. The game is even at best, but NOT Axis advantage from what I can see.
Also, with the Russians I do 18inf, 2AA–>Bury–>Amur–>Korea–>Manchuria. This is a huge tempo move which gets Japan out of position and they attack. If they don’t, they will lose Shanghai or HongKong or stay at Korea with several US fighters on their way to Moscow fast!!
I also buy 3tnk every round with Russia. That way you have a stack of infantry and 15+tanks (high-hitters) by round 5. Much better than buying all infantry, art, mech. You can actually do a couple of counterattacks to delay the German advance a round or 2. As Russia, all you have to do is delay and survive. If Germany doesn’t take Russia by round 8 or so, Allies will win and swing momentum.
Nice simple analysis Rommel!!!
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pulling africa naval to the pacific is a quick way to make italy a real country.
no real way of saving india short of ruskies coming in.
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What difference is two destroyers going to make? Uk use navy to kill of Italy units round 1. Italy wont make a single NO round one. Round 2 it be 7-10 UK planes in med and mabye 2 Italy ships. Round 3 US will be at Gibraltar and UK fighters will be on US carriers.
UK fighters on US carriers have 7movement so Italy be dead round 4, end of story.
India will be saved by Anzac sending 3fgt and possible 1inf 1AA gun :wink:
If Japan go all out on India and get over 80% odds on it, cosidder moving to west India for a turn and come back. Give them the 5-6 ipc.
If your going to send africa ships to med you might just try and send them all, pacific ships as well.
But Italy is going to close suez by sacrificing a tranny and you’ll be stuck in no mans land. -
I use the french DD to block if japan does round 3 DOW.
1 dd blocks for round 1.
India dies round 3-5 depending on japan and dice.
when you use the africa naval and pull it to the pacific, it is a bit tricky to merge it with the rest of the allied pacific fleet.
depends on japan. I play for objectives and vcs, so sending extra naval my way just tilts my battleship and does not block non combat movements. I dow Japan 2 so there is no blocking me from islands, no sniping my transports because I have enough naval to defend 2-4 spots against usa/anzac from queenslands.
It is what it is.
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You wont have the defence for 5 Islands period, you will need to sacrifice something. Attrition…
Japan cant realy afford loosing a single tranny.US only needs to spend 60IPC in atlantic, all the rest goes for Japan to the end of the game.
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oh you are a pacific pacific pacific chanting player.
Yeah I am that way too sometimes, that style is a race to shutdown japan in time to fly the fighters into russia. Whenever I am Japan people like to do this, because they know I will win in the pacific if they do not…what instead happens is I play tight with japan and maintain Japan’s fame as long as possible.
The british naval tend to be scattered for a reason. Also Italy should try to rebuild their naval and try to go for egypt / middle east… Games can be won or lost for the allies in africa/middle east. If russia can’t get that cash flow, that is it, Europe is easy mode for axis, 12 usa fighters flying in one time is not the same as russia making 30+ all game.
~Anyway there are two pacific strategies 1) convoy japan up top first 2) dutch islands. It is situational really. Anyway if you go south, Japan can offload men off of japan. If you go north japan can do a gambit for anzac sometimes (I lost one game I pushed for anzac and the other I won, both games japan itself got attacked, but yeah taking anzac over is fun). When they go south it is a bit easier for me as japan, because I can get inf to the battlefield and build naval off japan. Takes a bit before allies can begin to trade naval and it takes allies a bit longer to do KJF this way, where as going north is fast and easy because you can buy all carriers one round and all fighters the next and then blam you are convoying japan
Typically I see allies doing “blam I convoy japan” with strait carrier buy followed with air to fill it buy and then a shove. Yes, it is cheesy. Yes I do start out down by queensland early on, because I can take advantage of japan miss plays or possibly trade naval. Once I do full carrier buy and place the round after I congregate to hawaii and buy all fighters… then “blam I convoy japan” instant results… some people say it is super lame and they want to strangulate me with dice when I do this… when I am japan I feel the same way… but japan can always say "f it and go balls deep for anzac you take farthest west australia with 2 guys, then fly all your air there then wam bam thank you ma’am give me australia… three round process typically.
Or you can bring japan to africa, this is fun to do too. you basically give up making income with japan so italy can bank (you end up getting some africa money which is cool and when usa flies into russia to save it… you can “empire strikes back” in pacific… yes I have had some intense games, mostly when I do round 1 Japan declaration of war.
Yes I have experienced the full KJF might of allies and Japan is strong.
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I’ve made my points, there are alot of different situations, its realy tricky to describe them all.
If you feel like im wrong meet me on the battlefield and prove that your right and I wont stand a chance.
We can post result and how the game went.
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oh wow you posted when I went back to edit and describe things.
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Going north was my strategy for very long, but there is a serius downside.
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Japan will always have all money islands and Philipines. Thats +22 income to Japan and -15 income to allies.
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Anzac cant do anything alone, other than stack inf and pray.
If US moves into japan zone they need a serius big fleet as they will be hit by 20 planes from kwangsi airbase.
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Yeah well it is more of a mid game strat. Early on you can’t hold that so you may as well do queensland play.
USA 3 or 4 you should have full income so blam all carrier buy (you got all your dd and sub needs out of the way by now)… usa 4 or 5 all fighter.
Then you blam instant convoy / take korea with usa (unless you gave it to russia).
You can still move up with usa. as long as anzac is buying fighters and inf it should be fine and it can always go to USA carriers (come back instantly if it has to by being carried with usa).
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Anyway global can turn into a nash theory game. Like what I am doing to questioneer, right off the bat I picked business plan A. He is going to pick A B C or D.A: send all of london to hit 97 with overkill and land in malta, buy bombers with usa to defend london.
B: do the usual maybe 63%-85% attack 97 (I scramble depending on uk buy / what the odds look like)
C: pure KJF oriented strategy (uk needs to hold his own against a G3 sea lion if it happens in this event)
D: mix of the above followed with atlantic strategy, split buy, little atlantic then kjf or something random.
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My turn comes. I got pretty much have 2 options barb or sea lion with germany. If I do barb I have to assist italy with my air in the mean time. Japan is japan A) rush india sooner B) dutch islands then india C) dutch islands and everyday I am shuffling (drop men off japan, back track a bit to hold, basically get men into asia major to deal with ruskies should they come) D) Crazy ANZAC play.So the options the axis pick determines the options the allies pick which determine what the axis strategy is.
There is not an outcome where the allies have a winning edge. I am sorry it just does not exist, unless I choose the wrong option from the table.
This is a Nash game on the macro scale. AA50 and Revised are different games, there is less Nash.
The dice early on makes certain options more or less attractive depending on how they swing. If the allies get an edge it is usually because of this.
Explaining why the axis are dominate is not simple, because the axis does not sit down know what he is going to right off the bat unlike all previous editions… you can force something like G4 taking london is pretty much a done deal. DOW g1 against soviets is fun. etc etc. People who do that are doing it for fun and not purely for the sake of winning or being competitive. These strategies still have a good shot at ultimately winning the game by good I mean 30-40% of the time depending on dice or if the allies make mistakes better odds to win than them.
As a whole, allies are harder to play. However Japan is the country lots of players struggle with. Most of the games I spectated in which allies win is because of Japan being too indecisive, japan mistakes, or japan getting sunk.
In the more experienced player games, axis tend to win. Low Luck games especially.
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I think for beginners axis tends to win because they can just move stuff up while the other guy fumbles around. For the mid tier allies tend to win because axis are not min/maxing and allies have cushion with their income to make mistakes. For competitive A&Aers axis has the slight edge.
Axis tend to win off positioning alone, which is what people are finding. Has nothing to do with anyone being a worse or better player. If axis are winning games in the mid tier, it is because they are copying strategies (axis go first so it is easier to mimic what people do).
Japan needs to pick something from the Nash table and most players do without realizing it or thinking of it in that manner.
I am glad not every game involves sea lion and calcutta G3 and J3 like before. I like the game as it is, people bidding down determines who plays allies, if you like allies and are confident you can take it at 0-2. But bids starting at 6 and working down is balanced and it is fun. people can do various things with it add different spice to each game. Even 2 ipc can turn a mech into a tank for the ruskies, slight spice.
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a full example of a Nash strategy started with Soulfein. He buys 2tran and carrier g1. round 2 he holds baltic states (unless uk1 buys minor ic for egypt then yeah sure he’ll take london).
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Since Cow likes going public, thought I’d pipe in and quote my response to the conversation from our game thread:
"Competitively or friendly game??? Both. Can’t you do both??? :? Please, don’t spare me your best. If you are not going to give me your best then don’t bother playing. That’s boring.
Also, you humor me in the fact that you mention our game on other threads completely off topic. Very smug. I like it.
It flatters me that I must validate you as an AAplayer, giving our game attention where it doesn’t belong. I like your approach to losing- excuses. :cry: That’s great material when I beat you here or the tournament.Also, love your flowchart A-D crap, like you actually know something more than anyone here. Must have taken you awhile to make that. BTW, starting you out with the Tobruk attack instead of Taranto is like giving a baby milk. Gotta see if you can handle that first. I personally prefer Taranto, always have. Didn’t get that from you, who thinks that all AA knowledge orginates from yourself.
So please, step off your toilet and save us the jargon and your continuely revising articles. If your gonna talk, play games here, back up your words with some play. Nobody gives a crap what you do 8 hours on a computer a day playing “live” games in your mom’s basement or making AA flowcharts. :lol:
Honestly, with 8 other games going, your just another lab rat in testing. Maybe you’ll pass MY test and graduate to “option C” in my flowchart. :roll: :lol: “D” being the lowest for babies like yourself. Had to clarify that since you’re below me. :wink:
Do something for me kid, try playing some other good players. Learn something. Talk less, play more on the forums here. If you really didn’t care about about forum games, you would be posting every other time to validate yourself would you???
I’ll post ANZAC/France soon, gotta check my flowchart. LOL Cow you’re a trip, your almost as fun as Imp Leader or mantlefan back in the day.
I’ll be expecting another entertaining post from you soon. I know you won’t disappoint."
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I do really think game s still too young to talk about with a certainty, but I believe game favors slightly axis, solely because it s harder to play allies.
axis have really flexible moves, but allies have rather solid moves, which must be done against certain axis moves. so whole game strategy is determined by axis, and allies have to come up with a near-perfect answer each time. even a rather slight mistake can be fatal n cause axis to win the game on the long run.
not sure how this advantage can be countered by a bid, but I tend to go for a sudan inf, to ease ethiopia attack or support egy.
off the topic: are there any mods here who check n delete off the topic/nonsense/spam posts?
(yep new to this forum) -
Yes sorry, it is off topic, but tell that to Cow.
Yes, it is way to early to be saying one side favors the other. Alpha Final has only been out 3 months. Gotta give it a year of play at least, then you start to see substantial trends.
I definitely think Allies are harder to play, but I don’t think the game is Axis favored either- too early to say for sure. Strategies and counters have been developing weekly, almost daily here. Gotta wait til things level out a bit before making assumptions that’s all.
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Imperious Leader wrote a good guide to classic. I don’t see why anyone would ever criticize him, he explained it well. He also explained cannon fodder factor among other issues at the time.
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@Cow:
boasting is awesome
that’s what I’m sayin :-D pure awesome sauce!!! :mrgreen:
Would be interested in seeing how your game goes. Keep me posted. Oh and by the way I am an expert bro.
:lol:
re: soulfein - There are moderators, and they are active.
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