Research & Development Discussion - Delta+1

[Young Grasshopper]

This rule will be entered into the Delta+1 rule set, please use this thread to help refine it into a final version.

Research & Development (Young Grasshopper & Cmdr Jennifer)

The Research & Development Phase is no longer optional, instead……

Each power will receive free dice rolls @6 to develop technology, based on the amount of cash they hold at the beginning of their turn.

$0-24= 0 Rolls
$25-74= 1 Roll
$75-99= 2 Rolls
$100+= 3 Rolls

If the requirements are met, nations will receive their free roll/s regardless of how they accumulated their cash, or how many technologies they own (unless they own all technologies available, in which case they will seise researching technologies). National powers may purchase additional research dice if they wish, at the cost of $15 each, and than must roll all free rolls and purchased dice together.

Each national power must have control of their Capital in order to research technologies.

China may not research technologies under any circumstances.

For each 6 rolled, that Nation will receive a dice roll to develop a technology by matching the # on the dice with the # on the chart. Rolls for technologies already owned may be re-rolled.

Research and Development Chart

1. Improved Training and Technology (Combine the following):

• Advanced Artillery (support 2 infantry of any type)
• Improved Mechanized Infantry (attack at 2, move 2 can be paired with artillery to attack at 3) {edit: fixed spelling~Jen}

2. Improved Aeronautics (Combine the following):

• Jet Fighters (attack 4, defend 5)
• Long Range Aircraft (fighters/tacticals 6 move, strategics 8 move)

3. Improved Bomber Technology (Combine the following):

• Paratroopers (2 infantry)
• Heavy Bombers (2d6)

4. Improved Factories (Combine the following):

• Improved Industrial Complexes (Minors Cost 12, build 5; Majors cost 24, build 12)
• War Bonds (roll 2d6, take best result +2)

5. Improved Naval Bases (Combine the following):

• Improved Shipyards per rules
• Super Submarines

6. Improved Airbases

• Radar (AA Guns fire at 2 or less)
• Rockets (each airbases fires one rocket per SBR rules with a range of 4, may not be intercepted.)

[Young Grasshopper]

VERSION #1

All of the above, however, I would like to suggest more tech for naval units:

If we could somehow make room for something like this, it might be worth Japan hoping for it.

NAUTICAL ADVANCEMENT

(a) All Battleships now need to be hit 3 times before sinking
(b) All Aircraft Carriers may now hold up to 3 eligible air units

And finally, I would like to drop the price of extra dice from $15 to $10

[Jennifer]

I nix the d8 rule because not all players will have access to d8 to roll.  Also, I am not sure if the inhouse dicey can roll d8.

I’d like to see the 4:2 rule brought back from AARe/AA50e.  You must purchase 4 dice or 6 dice on your first attempt.  If you purchase 6 dice, you automatically get a technology.  If you purchase 4 dice and fail to make a break through, then you may purchase the second two dice and automatically get a break through.

This should only apply to purchased dice.  So if you get 3 free shots, you must still buy at least 4 dice, or buy no dice at all.

Given this change, I’d recommend dropping the price to 8 IPC per die purchased, that’s the same price as a destroyer and it’s not rare to see 4 destroyers or more purchased in a round, so this should not really “break the bank.”

To clarify, if you want more dice than what you get “free” then you must invest a minimum of 32 IPC to get an additional 4 rolls, or you may invest 48 IPC and purchase a technology break through.  Unlike AARe and AA50e, these dice are not “targetted” you get a random break through.

[Young Grasshopper]

@Cmdr:

I nix the d8 rule because not all players will have access to d8 to roll.   Also, I am not sure if the inhouse dicey can roll d8.

Good Point, forgot about the robot. I would still like see a bone thrown to the navies of the world, other than just super subs.

Version #1 has been edited.

[Young Grasshopper]

@Cmdr:

I’d like to see the 4:2 rule brought back from AARe/AA50e.  You must purchase 4 dice or 6 dice on your first attempt.  If you purchase 6 dice, you automatically get a technology.  If you purchase 4 dice and fail to make a break through, then you may purchase the second two dice and automatically get a break through.

The system is already set up so that players get dice automatically without spending, how about this….

Dice Purchasing Suggestion

the first dice purchased is $10 and drops by $1 for each dice there after, when at least one 6 is rolled. the price of the first dice purchased next is $10 again. if you spend for all 10 dice without success… you get a free roll for a tech. and than the price of the first dice purchased next is $10.

For example:

You purchase 3 dice for $27 (1@$10, 1@$9, 1@$8 thats a total of 4 if you include your free roll as well), if you fail, the next dice you purchase will cost $7, and so forth… all the way to $1 for the last dice purchased. if all 10 dice purchased fail, you get a free break through, and the next dice purchased resets to a cost of $10, and the second for $9… and so forth.

[Robbernosky]

We could have 2d6, and the middle numbers have more mundane tech, while the outer numbers have some game changers, or at least big enhancements.

[Young Grasshopper]

@Zallomallo:

We could have 2d6, and the middle numbers have more mundane tech, while the outer numbers have some game changers, or at least big enhancements.

Your suggestion lacks the detail needed to understand what you mean, could you be more specific?

[Robbernosky]

Like:
2 - Awesome
3 - Fantastic
4 - Excellent
5 - Great
6 - Good
7 - Meh
8 - Good
9 - Great
10 - Excellent
11 - Fantastic
12- Awesome

If you don’t know, 2 dice has increased probability of inner numbers (7 is the highest).  This could make technology a little more predictable, or something.

[JimmyHat]

@Young:

The Research & Development Phase is no longer optional, instead……

And of course my post is erased.

To reiterate that which I just typed out and lost:

This is the only part of this rule I don’t like, chiefly because it is going to have a massive effect on balance, and therefore make it hard to check all rules in playtesting for balance.  Adding this variable to the game means now to accurately test something it will take 10x the tries in order to account for various techs won throughout the game.  My main concern is making Delta balanced and mandating this rule means its going to be much harder to locate that balance.

Also I don’t play with tech, am fine with others doing so, and don’t think the game should /force/ players to tech.

[Jennifer]

Okay, if Super Submarines doesn’t float everyone’s boat, replace with:

Improved Ships:

• Submarines:  Attack 3, Defend 1
• Destroyers:   Attack 2, Defend 2, Can Shore Bombard at 2
• Cruisers:  Attack 3, Defend 3, Move 3
• Battleships:  Attack 4, Defend 5, AA Gun Ability, 2 Hits to Sink
• Aircraft Carriers:  Attack 0, Defend 2, Move 3, 2 Hits to Sink

The “3” move stacks with Naval Bases.  Theoretically, you could move the carriers the same distance as the fighters on board, but in practice, this would never happen in combat probably.  What it does do is allow for speedy reinforcements to your deployed fleet.  It might also encourage more cruisers to be built instead of mostly destroyers - as the destroyers only move at 67% the improved cruiser speed.

[Guest]

@Zallomallo:

We could have 2d6, and the middle numbers have more mundane tech, while the outer numbers have some game changers, or at least big enhancements.

Permutation.  Excellent idea.  It’s like a craps game.

You get nothing is the 2d6 adds up to 5, 6, 7 or 8.  Get an OK one for 4 or 9, a good one for 3 or 10, and awesome one for 2 or 11, and if you roll 1 or 12 you get the A-bomb.

[JimmyHat]

Another major issue with mandating the tech, is little powers will have little chance to get techs, while US and Germany will be getting most of them.  This is going to make playing ANZAC far less fun than Germany, and remember this is a multi-player game not 1v1.

[Robbernosky]

@Vance:

@Zallomallo:

We could have 2d6, and the middle numbers have more mundane tech, while the outer numbers have some game changers, or at least big enhancements.

Permutation.  Excellent idea.  It’s like a craps game.

You get nothing is the 2d6 adds up to 5, 6, 7 or 8.  Get an OK one for 4 or 9, a good one for 3 or 10, and awesome one for 2 or 11, and if you roll 1 or 12 you get the A-bomb.

I’d like to see you roll a 1 with 2 dice.
Lemme fix that:
No tech - 6 7 8
Mediocre - 5 9
Good - 4 10
Excellent - 3 11
A-Bomb - 2 12

@ er… JimmyHat
That’s a good idea, maybe we could make tech dice cost different based on initial income.  Smaller nations get less use out of it, right?

[Jennifer]

@JimmyHat:

Another major issue with mandating the tech, is little powers will have little chance to get techs, while US and Germany will be getting most of them.  This is going to make playing ANZAC far less fun than Germany, and remember this is a multi-player game not 1v1.

Well, almost anyone should have a chance at free tech, and they can buy tech if they save up for 1 or 2 rounds (to get 4 dice at 8 IPC, ANZAC shouldnt need more than 2 rounds to get enough cash, neither should India - unless they are trying for it in round 1 and I don’t recommend that.)

I agree, USA, Germany and Japan will get the lion’s share of technologies, but then, Japan and Germany really need them to put the final touches on winning the game, America also could use them to kind of drive the game towards an end.

If anything, the free dice should light a fire under England, India, Australia and Russia to increase the pressure.

[Young Grasshopper]

@JimmyHat:

@Young:

The Research & Development Phase is no longer optional, instead……

And of course my post is erased.

To reiterate that which I just typed out and lost:

This is the only part of this rule I don’t like, chiefly because it is going to have a massive effect on balance, and therefore make it hard to check all rules in playtesting for balance.  Adding this variable to the game means now to accurately test something it will take 10x the tries in order to account for various techs won throughout the game.  My main concern is making Delta balanced and mandating this rule means its going to be much harder to locate that balance.

Also I don’t play with tech, am fine with others doing so, and don’t think the game should /force/ players to tech.

Jimmy, be assured that all your concerns will be addressed and treated fairly, you are a very important part of Delta and your opinions matter greatly.

[JimmyHat]

@Cmdr:

@JimmyHat:

Another major issue with mandating the tech, is little powers will have little chance to get techs, while US and Germany will be getting most of them.  This is going to make playing ANZAC far less fun than Germany, and remember this is a multi-player game not 1v1.

Well, almost anyone should have a chance at free tech, and they can buy tech if they save up for 1 or 2 rounds (to get 4 dice at 8 IPC, ANZAC shouldnt need more than 2 rounds to get enough cash, neither should India - unless they are trying for it in round 1 and I don’t recommend that.)

I agree, USA, Germany and Japan will get the lion’s share of technologies, but then, Japan and Germany really need them to put the final touches on winning the game, America also could use them to kind of drive the game towards an end.

If anything, the free dice should light a fire under England, India, Australia and Russia to increase the pressure.

If the minor powers save up money to make research rolls, then they are already losing out on boots on the ground…needed to increase their income.  The only real fix would be to reduce costs to them, or to make all tech rolls cost money but on a sliding scale based on a countries IPC level.  Giving free techs is favoring the larger countries and when its game night everyone is going to want to play those countries.

Remember this is still basically an economics game, All countries should have a ‘fire’ lit under them to increase pressure(ipcs)

But back to my original reason for protesting the mandated tech.  When we are playtesting all rules tech is now going to be a major factor, and this variable is going to make playtesting harder.  Essentially it will take more tests to reach the same conclusion, no?

[special forces]

I agree with JimmyHat, Giving tech to the rich is no fair!

[Guest]

@Zallomallo:

No tech - 6 7 8
Mediocre - 5 9
Good - 4 10
Excellent - 3 11
A-Bomb - 2 12

Yeah, that’s right (sorry I’m not so good at math).  Maybe not the A-Bomb but something most powerful for 2 (e.g. heavy bombers) or 12 (e.g. jet fighters).  I think this idea has a lot of potential because the most powerful techs would be least likely to occur.

[Young Grasshopper]

The refined version of this rule should follow parallel to the ideas that were voted in (some kind of free roll system, and a doubled up tech chart).

[Jennifer]

Free rolls for income:

10 IPC = 1 Roll
30 IPC = 2 Rolls
60 IPC = 3 Rolls
90 IPC = 4 Rolls
150 IPC = 5 Rolls

Purchased Rolls:

2 Dice = 16 IPC
4 Dice = 32 IPC
6 Dice = 48 IPC

You must purchase either 4 or 6 dice at a time, if 4 dice fail, then you may purchase 2 more the next round.
For each 6 purchased dice, you get one free technology.  You must still roll a D6 to figure out which one you got.