Switch France and Italy. Italy is Allied, France Axis. Simple what if.
Stop the madness, and start the presses
-
OK here is how I see it (I am no expert but whatever):
If Germany hits the UK fleet G1 (which they usually do), they will normally have a fleet parked in z112, with air cover from West Germany, maybe a carrier, and most likely a sub or two depending on what they bought and how G1 went. UK often does not have enough to take on that fleet at this stage so USSR will need to devote at least $18 worth of units to the Ireland project (1 transport, 1 destroyer, and 1 inf) because of the sub(s) (maybe a good reason to buy a sub G1).
USSR starts the game nonallied so they can move the inf to Scotland no earlier than the round when Germany declares war on them. Let’s suppose that happens G2 and USSR can try it R2, but only if they were prescient enough to make the naval investment R1 and if z111, z125, and z126 are clear or can be cleared. If they have to wait for UK to clear those zones (and Germany doesn’t subsequently unclear them), it will be R3. Notice that Germany might like to have something in z125 to deny USSR the Murmansk NO and the only way planes based in Novgorod can reach it will be if they land them in Scotland or Finland if you own it.
OK now let’s suppose it all works and Ireland is taken R3 or R4. USSR now gets an extra $3 per turn and will recoup the $18 investment in 6 rounds. Will USSR be alive R9 or R10 if that $18 was spent this way? If they are around, the USSR will finally turn a profit R10 or R11. That’s an awful long time to wait for $3…. (it’s like a friggin’ pension fund!)
RUSSIA NEEDS INFANTRY AND ARTILLERY NOW; NOT LATER.
-
Vance,
I get what you are saying. Let me try to say what I was intending to say in another way.
1) Germany goes Barbarossa, so there is no fleet buy on Round 1 (they need ground troops!). Then Russia puts a transport in the water and moves an infantry to Scotland. Total cost of this is 7 IPC since the Infantry is still used, it just ends up going to Ireland and then back to London to defend against a possible Sea Lion later. A destroyer build is ALWAYS recommended for Russia, it keeps the Germans honest about SZ 125 and doesn’t just let them park a submarine there forever and a day.
2) Germany goes Sea Lion, so you dont WANT Ireland, as it’ll fall easy. But that’s okay, since you’ll be getting Greece, Bulgaria, Albania, Romania and Hungary anyway. (Since Germany obliged you by spending 100 IPC in the water for Sea Lion, which is 100 less infantry, artillery and armor for Russia to deal with.)
-
Ahh OK. That makes sense.
-
@Vance:
Ahh OK. That makes sense.
How dose the that make sense?
I mean I can see that its a balancing act. If Germany is focusing on sealion then you know your transport fleet wouldnt sruvive in the waters near Britian so dont build it although you say dont build because Germany could then take Ireland making it a wasted effort which is also true (though you’d think the German AC in the north sea would make that obvious first).
The other scenario seems to be saying that if Germany forucses on the Soviets then build the transport…… at some point(its not really made clear), the logic being that if Germany is focusing on the eastern front then it isnt buying naval units and for some reason hasnt decimated the British fleet in the north sea. The problem is why wouldnt you take the British fleet down even if you werent doing a sealion? Also, why isnt the German player doing more to interdict the north sea and keep something up near sz125? Again, this would just seem like good policy reguardless of which greater strategy your following.
-
It makes sense because it will only work some of the time (i.e. if Germany has no navy at all). It is not a standard thing that would happen in every game.
-
@Vance:
It makes sense because it will only work some of the time (i.e. if Germany has no navy at all). It is not a standard thing that would happen in every game.
There are very few standard moves that happen every game, and the majority of those happen during the first round.
-
@Young:
@Vance:
It makes sense because it will only work some of the time (i.e. if Germany has no navy at all). It is not a standard thing that would happen in every game.
There are very few standard moves that happen every game, and the majority of those happen during the first round.
Amen. No plan survives implementation without failing at some point!
-
Back to the topic for one moment. Who believes that Larry has finalized the Global 1940 rules, and who thinks there will be more alpha changes?
-
@Vance:
It makes sense because it will only work some of the time (i.e. if Germany has no navy at all). It is not a standard thing that would happen in every game.
Nothing happens the same way in every game (except that Italy is just about always screwed).
I’m not talking about Russia taking it as soon as the game starts or even the same turn they have war declaired on it. I see no reason why if they’re attacked by Germany turn 3 that they couldn’t have things ready turn 4 or 5. Or if Japan attacks Russia on J1 (happens a lot in my games) that Russia couldn’t start thinking about how to round up potential Neutral countries. In probably 80% of my games Germany does not dominate the Atlantic, so while they could place a sub or two there it isn’t out of the realm of possibility that the RN or USN would be able to kill whatever is barring the way.
The games that Germany does end up being able be the dominant force in the atlantic you wouldn’t bother building it. It’s as simple as that.
I never play a game of A&A with a 100% strategy in mind. I go into it with a general idea of what I want to do and firm goals to accomplish. But I always leave a little wiggleroom to pick up on openings left by other players and weaknesses I can exploit. This Russian dude drinkin’ it up in Ireland would not be something I would look to do every game as Russia, but it would be an option for something I could do should the opportunity present itself. -
@Young:
Back to the topic for one moment. Who believes that Larry has finalized the Global 1940 rules, and who thinks there will be more alpha changes?
Were I a betting man, I’d expect more changes. If nothing else some changes need to be made to fix the last round of changes that were made
( . Y . )
^ ^
________/ -
@Young:
Back to the topic for one moment. Who believes that Larry has finalized the Global 1940 rules, and who thinks there will be more alpha changes?
Were I a betting man, I’d expect more changes. If nothing else some changes need to be made to fix the last round of changes that were made
( . Y . )
^ ^
________/He said final revisions on 2 November 2011. That’s tomorrow, so we’ll probably have a “final” set of rules and the new games will probably ship with them.
-
Ummm so if some of these oddball gamey things like USSR taking Ireland will only happen some of the time (perhaps rarely), then doesn’t that kind of suggest that they are exceptional things that exceptional players might do, rather than flaws with the game itself? I kind of like the Russian NO because Stalin most definitely wanted the Balkans and as much of Eastern Europe as possible to be Communist (except Greece maybe). For the game, it counters some of the really pro-axis things in the latest version (i.e. setup changes in france, loss of airbases in med).
Anyway, it will be great to see the final version!! The game is much cooler than it was a year ago and everyone has benefited from considering the possibilities of each iteration.
-
@Vance:
Ummm so if some of these oddball gamey things like USSR taking Ireland will only happen some of the time (perhaps rarely), then doesn’t that kind of suggest that they are exceptional things that exceptional players might do, rather than flaws with the game itself?
No, because any player that realizes the cost-benefit to taking Ireland will see it as a beneficial strategy - in most cases, that is.
It’s not even remotely an exception. It is too easy for Russia to do and pays off too much. The pay-off doesn’t make much sense anyway. It’s extremely gamey but is too worth it for Russia to overlook as an “exceptional” thing.For the game, it counters some of the really pro-axis things in the latest version (i.e. setup changes in france, loss of airbases in med).
Hardly. Russia will get +3 for the rest of the game for Ireland, but realistically won’t attain any other bonus for the rest of the game. That has no relationship with the amount that UK has been nerfed. Balance doesn’t work like that.
The removal of those airbases serves only to be an entirely arbitrary change in an attempt to “balance” a pro-Allies set-up. -
No, because any player that realizes the cost-benefit to taking Ireland will see it as a beneficial strategy - in most cases, that is.
It’s not even remotely an exception. It is too easy for Russia to do and pays off too much. The pay-off doesn’t make much sense anyway. It’s extremely gamey but is too worth it for Russia to overlook as an “exceptional” thing.
Hardly. Russia will get +3 for the rest of the game for Ireland, but realistically won’t attain any other bonus for the rest of the game. That has no relationship with the amount that UK has been nerfed. Balance doesn’t work like that.
The removal of those airbases serves only to be an entirely arbitrary change in an attempt to “balance” a pro-Allies set-up.You can’t see it, but I’m giving you two thumbs up. I’m on the same page as you. I like the spirit of the latest Russian NO, but I’d like to see it restricted to the Soviet satellites Stalin wanted as a buffer between Russia and the rest of Europe. With Finland as a separate NO all together.
-
I’d be good with the NO applying to territories European territories that Russia can walk too (and Turkey). Yes, Scandinavia is part of Europe.
-
@Cmdr:
@Young:
Back to the topic for one moment. Who believes that Larry has finalized the Global 1940 rules, and who thinks there will be more alpha changes?
Were I a betting man, I’d expect more changes. If nothing else some changes need to be made to fix the last round of changes that were made
( . Y . )
^ ^
________/He said final revisions on 2 November 2011. That’s tomorrow, so we’ll probably have a “final” set of rules and the new games will probably ship with them.
Source?
-
@Vance:
I kind of like the Russian NO because Stalin most definitely wanted the Balkans and as much of Eastern Europe as possible to be Communist (except Greece maybe).
You know, Stalin was a real chicken-s**t in supporting supposed allies. Greece had a communist party and they tried to rise up but since there was a large British presence already in Greece, Stalin sent no support whatsoever for the Greek Communists. I mean, I can understand that he didn’t want to piss off the British by sending forces into Greece, especially since they were still struggling to defeat Germany, but it still seems really crappy to leave fellow Communists to be nearly wiped out in Greece.
It’s like what happened in Warsaw. The Russians were closing in on Warsaw, steadily pushing the Germans back. So, the Polish Underground in Warsaw rose up against the Germans because they were expecting the Russians to arrive. Instead, Stalin halted the offensive and left the Warsaw Poles on their own. The Germans brutally crushed the uprising and a lot of brave Poles paid dearly for it. I guess from a strict tactical point of view, it made sense for the Soviets. Let the Poles kill as many Germans as possible and tie down more German reinforcements then go in and mop up what’s left. As far as supporting people fighting a common foe, that was a really crappy thing to do. -
@Young:
@Cmdr:
@Young:
Back to the topic for one moment. Who believes that Larry has finalized the Global 1940 rules, and who thinks there will be more alpha changes?
Were I a betting man, I’d expect more changes. If nothing else some changes need to be made to fix the last round of changes that were made
( . Y . )
^ ^
________/He said final revisions on 2 November 2011. That’s tomorrow, so we’ll probably have a “final” set of rules and the new games will probably ship with them.
Source?
Discussion thread that the rules are listed in on his own website.
-
@Cmdr:
@Young:
@Cmdr:
@Young:
Back to the topic for one moment. Who believes that Larry has finalized the Global 1940 rules, and who thinks there will be more alpha changes?
Were I a betting man, I’d expect more changes. If nothing else some changes need to be made to fix the last round of changes that were made
( . Y . )
^ ^
________/He said final revisions on 2 November 2011. That’s tomorrow, so we’ll probably have a “final” set of rules and the new games will probably ship with them.
Source?
Discussion thread that the rules are listed in on his own website.
Yep. All you have to do is search for it in the 210 pages.
-
So Alpha+3 will be the final draft for Global 1940 rules. Wow! For a while there kept being so many changes that I wasn’t sure there would ever be an end to them.
I guess if any of us are unhappy with any of these rules now, it will be up to us to simply create house rules for them. Of course, since my gaming group is basically the same 5-6 people all the time, once we all find something we can agree on, it shouldn’t be any problem. For those of you that play with different people a lot or go and play the A&A tournaments, I guess you will have to either accept the rules as is or find your own compromises with your game players. (I would like to see one of them sometime but they are usually too far away from where I live. Plus I usually don’t hear about them until it’s too late to make travel plans and get time off work. Well, maybe someday.)
Suggested Topics
