Help with Allies - UK factory builds

[LMD]

Not sure what Hobbes means by “trying a small bid with the Allies?”

Anyway, my German opponent typically builds mostly inf in the early rounds to hold territories, then subs and 1 or 2 carriers to threaten the US / UK fleet.  Also, he usually has a bomber or two (German and/or Japanese) on WE, forcing US to build addional navy to support the SZ 2 transports.  On other occassions, he and I (when I’m the Axis) instead just build inf with G and move all armor and many inf to Karellia, which doesn’t allow the US and UK to maintain a steady stream of Europe landings.  In those games, Russia might trade land with G early on, but G always manages to buy enough time to allow J roll over Russia. Sure the US and UK can eventually out-build whatever G does, but it always seems to take too log.  It’s possible that I haven’t been aggressive enough with Russia when G spends IPCs on navy and air, or aggressive enough with US/UK when G piles up infantry.  Seems like i’ve tried everything suggested in these forums and nothing seems to work.  I’ll keep trying and thanks for the various suggestions.

[Hobbes]

@LMD:

Not sure what Hobbes means by “trying a small bid with the Allies?”

A bid is an amount of IPCs that a player receives before game starts. It is then used to place units or it is just given to a country(s). You can check more on it under the Player Help subforum.

Usually both players bid for a side, meaning that one starts offering IPCs to play that side (‘I give 5 IPCs to play Allies’). The other player can then pass (and the first player plays the Allies with that additional money) or it can make a lower offer ('I bid 4 IPCs instead). It continues until there’s no more offers.

There are a lot of bidding systems: just 1 round (where both players announce their bids at the same time and the lower one wins automatically), the system I described above, or a set bid (players roll a die to see who plays Allies), etc. You can also have defined rules for bid placement (usually just 1 unit per territory/SZ, it needs to already have existing units and you can only place units of a country on its starting territories)

Usually bids are not used on 1942 because most players consider it balanced (unlike Classic, Revised or AA50). On this case it can be used to balance more both sides. You can try giving the Allied player a preset 3 IPC bid (bids on revised usually are 8-9 IPCs and on AA50 8-13 IPCs but I would keep it small on 1942)

[LMD]

@Granada:

If you trade EE/WEU or whatever other European teritories with Allies, distribute the income in such a way that the UK has optimally 32 ipcs to spend every round, the rest should go to US to build air, or a tranny to drop to Africa from time to time or even a sub in pacific.

Great advice from Granada.  My biggest mistake has been strat bombing because my opponent has been ridiculously lucky in shooting down allies bombers.  One follow-up question, however, is how in the world the UK maintains 32 IPCs?  By the time the UK is able to trade EE/WEU territories, it has already lost India, Persia and French Madagascar (-5 IPCs), and usually also New Zealand, Trans-Jordan and other territories in Africa
(-2+ IPCs), and has only gained Norway (+3 IPCs).  So, even with EE, UK might get up to 28-29 IPCs, but never gets close to 32 IPCs.  Of course, WHEN Japan takes the Africa in the later rounds, UK’s income is often in the low 20s.  We’ve never been able to take WEU and hold it without substantial losses, so those 6 IPCs never get factored in.  So, it seems like 32 IPCs for UK is unattainable in the mid to later rounds when UK needs them to send units to Europe.  Also, G frequently strat bombs the UK, depleting much needed IPCs.  As a result, I really never have enough to fully utilize UK’s 4 transports.

[Zhukov44]

@LMD:

It’s possible that I haven’t been aggressive enough with Russia when G spends IPCs on navy and air, or aggressive enough with US/UK when G piles up infantry.  Seems like i’ve tried everything suggested in these forums and nothing seems to work.  I’ll keep trying and thanks for the various suggestions.

Generally, if Germany is spending substantial amounts of money on navy….then a KGF ought to be able to take them if you do it aggressively and efficiently.  Without details who knows what you are doing wrong…if you want more precise advice you’ll have to tell us about your typical buys (especially in the first few rounds) and give us more detail.

I think you probably aren’t buying enough tanks with Russia…  If Germany is spending on air/navy then stack Ukraine.  If you use the Russians to wear Germany out and keep their numbers low…then later you’ll be able to land Western or stack Eastern.

UK gets to 32 ipcs from Africa, Norway, and trading East/West Europe/Belorussia.  Personally instead of the Nor gambit I go with a russian sub buy plus R2 attack on the Med fleet…like the Nor gambit this leads to larger UK income down the line.

[Granada]

@LMD:

One follow-up question, however, is how in the world the UK maintains 32 IPCs?  By the time the UK is able to trade EE/WEU territories, it has already lost India, Persia and French Madagascar (-5 IPCs), and usually also New Zealand, Trans-Jordan and other territories in Africa (-2+ IPCs), and has only gained Norway (+3 IPCs).  So, even with EE, UK might get up to 28-29 IPCs, but never gets close to 32 IPCs.  Of course, WHEN Japan takes the Africa in the later rounds, UK’s income is often in the low 20s.  We’ve never been able to take WEU and hold it without substantial losses, so those 6 IPCs never get factored in.  So, it seems like 32 IPCs for UK is unattainable in the mid to later rounds when UK needs them to send units to Europe.  Also, G frequently strat bombs the UK, depleting much needed IPCs.  As a result, I really never have enough to fully utilize UK’s 4 transports.

Well, you usually dont lose india for good till R3 most of the games, the same holds for AE, but then you already land on Africa to compensate. Most of the times I try for New Guinea R1, which gives me 1 more IPC if succesful. And then you have Norway. So you really should have no problem be above 30 R1-4 if not for the rotten dice. You build AC, 2dds R1, 3 trns and some land units R2, You might consider buying actually one more trn R3, because, you can threaten to hit WEU, Germany, EE with 10 units which will make it more difficult for gerrys to hold.

You can also overbuild the inf here so that you will need to buy less on the later rounds when the UK income will start to drop. If you have 6 starting land units with the 2 in Canada, you have build 3 more trns on UK2, you can build trn and 7 inf UK3 which would give you 2 tnk, 2 art, 13inf plus 5 trn at the end of R3 with some ipcs remaining. The combined fleet consists of bb, 2 ACs, cru, 1-2 dds, 3-4 figs, so the gerry really cannot sink that.

YOu would most likely have some units on Nor already, but still you can use the cache of extra infs to go with the new build tanks. US cannot come earlier anyway, and the synchronicity of the 16 units a round drops is what really matters.

Once you hold kar with allies, UK can trade other European teritories and you should not have problems with the income anymore even if you still dont trade WEU.

And if you are really short of income, you can always adjust the buy. Lets say 4inf, 2art, 1tnk are for 25 and still give you reasonable punch.

[LMD]

Curious, assuming G has taken AE on G1 with at least 2 units, what do you typically do with the UK fleet in SZ 35 on UK1 - do you go after Borneo on UK 1, use the SZ 35 fleet to retake AE, or maybe combine the fleet with the Aussies in SZ 38 (and further assuming in all scenarios you still send the fighter to take out the J trns in SZ59)? It seems like retaking AE is the priority, but then leaves India weak and J free to start pressing Asia right away. I’m sure there are prior posts on this so I apologize for the repetition.

Also, I’ve tried to get the point in New Guinea, but rarely succeed, which leaves Aust and NZ rather easy targets for J, and UK with even lower IPCs earlier in the game.

[Zhukov44]

I think Egy is the most important objective.  Normally those last 2 units are tanks, and they will sweep Africa, so alot of ipcs are at stake.

One alternative deployment is attacking FIC with all you have including the cruiser….this is pretty risky but its sexy when it works.

I’m not a huge fan of attacking New Guinea cause its 33% to fail outright and it weakens Aussie (sometimes the Aussie defenders can come up big, but not with only 1 inf).  On the other hand I’m not sure what to do with that transport.  I used to have it run east towards Brazil but lately opponents are sending the Jap sub after it.

[Hobbes]

@Zhukov44:

On the other hand I’m not sure what to do with that transport.   I used to have it run east towards Brazil but lately opponents are sending the Jap sub after it.

It really depends on the overall situation but one interesting move is to pull back the transport to SZ39, while moving the sub to SZ45/47. Japan then either ignores it, possibly allowing for 2 inf to be transported to Africa, depending on the location of the Japanese carrier/battleship at SZ37 on UK2 (if it is possible to hit SZ30 with fighters or the BB). Or you can pull back 1 inf from NZ to Australia, and wait with the transport on SZ40.
But if Japan decides to go after the transport on SZ39 it will have to either use the BB or keep the BB on SZ37 to protect the carrier from the UK sub.

[El Ravager]

This thread has moved away from discussing the UK1 factory, however, I’ll just add to the discussion on UK1 strategy.

I totally agree with Zhukov that Egypt is the most important target. However, depending on the remaining forces there are a lot of different options how to do it. Only if there are 4 (or more, with a bid) German units left I will not attack Egypt. If there are 3 Germans, I’d like to send everything possible, including the bomber and the cruiser support shot, sending the carrier to get the Jap transport and intending to land the planes in Ethiopia. Depending on German air presence and Russian unit allocation you may also be able to land in Trans-Jordan. Odds: about 71% to take with at least 1 inf, 19% to clear all land units and 10% to lose one or more air units. It is actually debatable whether you should press the attack with 1 fighter and 1 bomber versus 1 armor; you may lose the fighter but this will pay back by keeping Africa clear. On the other hand you may not be able to sink the German fleet next turn without the extra fig.

With 2 armor left you can consider using the bomber and/or cruiser for other purposes. 3 inf 1 fig versus 2 armor lets you take Egypt 68%, clears land units another 17% of the time and loses the fighter 15%. However these numbers also include the times when you continue with 1 fig against 1 arm and win, which you probably shouldn’t do, so you will sometimes retreat with 1 or even 2 armors left (and cry). Sending the bomber or the cruiser too makes it much better of course. By the way, I consider clearing all land units a good outcome, since it is really just about killing the German tanks. Taking Egypt is just a nice bonus that will prevent air units to land there.

With 1 armor left, you have options! Sending just the TJ inf and the fighter (possibly also the bomber) allows you to save the transport for future turns, but you need to send a ship against the Jap transport (likely the cruiser). You could also choose to send 3 inf and the cruiser against Egypt, allowing the fighter to take out the Jap tranny and to land in Buryatia (an advantage not to underestimate). I would love to send just 1 inf and bomber against Egypt, the fighter against the transport and preserve the entire Indian fleet, but this leaves no good landing spot for the bomber unless you positioned the Russians to assist in Trans Jordan.

Finally, the Aussie fleet moves depending on the Indian fleet. If the Indian fleet exposed itself to Japanese attacks, for example cruiser to SZ59 and transport to Egy SZ, you can be more liberal with the Aussia transport since it is less likely to get hit (and if it will, other battles will become less favorable for Japan). The sub can move freely but should always be positioned within 2 spaces of either Japan seazone or FIC seazone, threating the one the UK bomber can’t reach, so between the two of them you can take out any loose transports Japan leaves after J1 (or more likely, forces him to protect them).

[_Flin_]

@LMD:

Every game has gone to the Axis (about 14 games now), and every one has been a KGF strategy.

Do not play KGF.

We routinely go with the Norwegian Gambit (preserving the UK battleship) and have never failed.  Yes, we lose the R fighter on Germany R1, but one Russian fighter does not make the difference.

Do not play the Gambit. Maybe the Russian fighter combined with the lack of the BB as a target is more important than you account for.

This advice isn’t global, of course KGF and Norwegian Gambit are viable strategic and tactical options.

But if it doesn’t work for you, try something else.

• R1 Attack on WRus and UKR. Move 6 INF into Bur, 2 INF to Yakut.

• US1 build an AC, DD for Western US, placing Hawaii ftr and WUS ftr on the AC. Move Bomber to Alaska. This way you threaten SZ 60 with the fighters, SZ 61 with the bomber. If J2 doesn’t go for Bur, you can reinforce Bur with 2 fighters on US2 and maybe sink undefended transports in SZ61, landing in Bur.
  Then go for the Solomons. Try to build to 2-3 transports (moving ground troups to the Solomons. ) and a few planes every now and then for the Pacific (over time, not necessarily in one round). Have a surprise tranny take an island or 2. Threaten Borneo, Phillipines and East Indies all in one go from the Solomons.
  Use the US sub and the UK sub roam the islands, threatening transports and ACs.

The main goal is to threaten Japan and lure Japan into spending scarce money on expensive navy. If Japan ignores your moves, be more aggressive. Phillipines is a victory point, so are Shanghai and India.

I am not saying that this is a very great strategy. But it forces many decisions onto the Japanese player.

And if you have problems in the Atlantic, try building the AC, 2xDD on UK1 in SZ2, then be aware you might land the US ftr on the carrier on turn 1.