How is the balance with the new Alpha 2 changes? Please give your view.

[jim010]

@Cmdr:

SZ 106: Submarine
SZ 91: 2 Submarines
SZ 111: A bunch of planes, some submarines
SZ 112: warships and a plane
SZ 110: A bunch of planes, some submarines.

For the record:  I use no planes in France, only ground units.  When I am done with England, there is no fleet left in the Atlantic with the possible exception of SZ 106.

:?

You can’t hit the DD in sz109, and if you use the 2 sb to hit sz91, scrambling in sz110 becames a great idea.

[Jennifer]

If you scramble SZ 109, you don’t scramble SZ 110.

[jim010]

You didn’t hit 109 in your post, and I can use the fht in scotland.

[jim010]

And are you sendng any planes to Sit even?

[Jennifer]

S. Italy?  No.  I always have bad luck in SZ 97 regardless of what side I am on, I’m tired of losing half my air force for no tangible results because the dice gods hate me!

Besides, this way I have 11 aircraft to use against SZ 110 and SZ 111.  (I COULD hit SZ 109 instead of SZ 106, I suppose, but what’s the point?  Yer right, my opening doesn not include a punch at SZ 109, but that’s to do with scrambled fighters, not because I cannot.)

[jim010]

I COULD hit SZ 109 instead of SZ 106, I suppose, but what’s the point?

The point?  You are not killing The UK fleet in entirety, as it is not possible.  That TT lives to go back to Canada and get the inf and tank to London.

Then your opening runs a risk of losing 6 planes in sz110.  And you are also relying on luck that you get the DD and TT in sz106.

Assuming that you actually kill that TT, and that UK doesn’t get lucky in sz112 and you have the CA, then the BEST you can do against London on G3 is:

12 inf, 4 art, 8 tanks, 5 fht, 5 tac, 1 bmb

vs UK’s best

23 inf, 4 tanks, 7 fht, 1 tac

That’s 40% for Sealion.  If you don’t get the TT in sz106 (and 66% of the time you won’t) make it 22%.

If you land in Scotland with 6 inf, then you need to protect those 3 TTs from air attack from 6 fht, 1 tac if you place in sz111, 109 or 119.  Then your newly bought TTs will also need to be defended against thse planes in sz112 if you place them there.  Otherwise you place them in sz113 and you will need to defend there against 5 fht (even followed by a French fht) and even run the risk of being blocked.

Against a proper defense, you can’t do Sealion.  I’d be happy to play and prove it.

[special forces]

@jim010:

(snip)
That’s 40% for Sealion.  If you don’t get the TT in sz106 (and 66% of the time you won’t) make it 22%.

40%…

I know it’s probably hard to calculate, but… what would be the odds for Germany to do a succesful Sea-Lion after a failed first attempt?

[jim010]

You can just do as Cmdr Jen suggested, but land in Scotland on turn 3 instead and then hit turn 4.  The odds are very good, but you have emptied Europe to do it.

The only option for UK is to hit Scotland for 2 turns and retreat, and hopefully the odds will have dropped for Germany.

[Jennifer]

@jim010:

You can just do as Cmdr Jen suggested, but land in Scotland on turn 3 instead and then hit turn 4.  The odds are very good, but you have emptied Europe to do it.

The only option for UK is to hit Scotland for 2 turns and retreat, and hopefully the odds will have dropped for Germany.

But isn’t that still Doing Sea Lion and it being Successful?

I never claimed you’d have the man power to do Sea Lion and blitz into Russia!  I assumed you’d lose Poland, Hungary and Romania to Russia on the round or round before you take London, I am only contending that if Germany really wants England, they are going to get it.  There’s nothing England can do to stop it.

[jim010]

You sink the Royal navy, in its entirety, on Round 1, on Round 3 you take England.  Trick is stacking Scotland on Round 2, so you need less transports.  England either attacks the stack weakening London or does not attack the stacks, giving you more to hit them with. Either way, they lose.

You argued for a G3.  You also argued for removing UK’s fleet  round 1.  Neither are possible if played properly.

[jim010]

Now in a concession to you, I have been too chicken to do a Sealion 4.

It takes everything I have to hold Russia from entering Poland on turn 4, so I wouldn’t like the position I’d be in if 90% of my army is in London when Russia attacks turn 4.

[Jennifer]

I don’t mind Russia invading Poland, Hungary and Romania.  I’ve cleared out Russians after they’ve gotten all the way down to Greece before.  Thing is, I’ve only done it if London was in my hands.

Also, in regards to fleet, if all England has left is a destroyer and a transport, I have effectively left them with no fleet.

In regards to G3/G4 sea lion, they are instance specific.  If you cannot do it on G3, you will do it on G4.  If you don’t throw away perfectly good planes defending replaceable Italian ships, you can probably do it on G3. (Saving them is great and all, but the opportunity cost isn’t worth it in my book.)

Once England is gone, you have +13 IPC a round, that effectively covers your 9 IPC loss in the East.

[jim010]

Not having done a G4 (but I have played against it), I would have to say it is a bad idea.  G3 is your window.

And UK will have at least 1 DD, 1 TT - or have 2 DD, 2 TT plus whatever fleet is brought out of the Med.  That is not insignificant.  That is a core fleet.

But I’d be happy to play Allies if you want to try it.

[Jennifer]

I don’t think it really matters which round you take London in, as long as you take London.  Of course, it is kind of an issue to see what America is doing for a few rounds as well…if they are loading up transports in SZ 101, you might want to weigh things differently.

That said, London is far easier and more rewarding than Russia, I think.

[jim010]

I don’t think it really matters which round you take London in, as long as you take London.

I say G4 is too late.  But you are welcome to try :wink:

[jim010]

That said, London is far easier and more rewarding than Russia, I think.

Agreed.

[Chompers2]

@jim010:

That said, London is far easier and more rewarding than Russia, I think.

Agreed.

My thinking has moved in this direction also.  After dieing in the Russian winter in too many games I am thinking Sea Lion may be a viable alternative to achieve victory after all…

[Jennifer]

@Frank:

@jim010:

That said, London is far easier and more rewarding than Russia, I think.

Agreed.

My thinking has moved in this direction also.  After dieing in the Russian winter in too many games I am thinking Sea Lion may be a viable alternative to achieve victory after all…

I view it less of achieving victory so much as staving off defeat!

Think of it this way:  After you have finally taken Russia (and we will assume you do so, for the sake of argument) how do you get England?

[Chompers2]

@Cmdr:

@Frank:

@jim010:

That said, London is far easier and more rewarding than Russia, I think.

Agreed.

My thinking has moved in this direction also.  After dieing in the Russian winter in too many games I am thinking Sea Lion may be a viable alternative to achieve victory after all…

I view it less of achieving victory so much as staving off defeat!

Don’t get me wrong I do believe the game is still broken in favors of the Allies between two semi skilled opponents.  I am all for making the Axis somewhat stronger.

[Jennifer]

Aye, I am just saying I feel Germany’s only real chance of victory is to take London and then kill Russia.  I am not saying this is a great strategy or one that will even win most of the time, like I am saying the American Pac-Strat is.  There’s just no possible way Japan can hold out against America for 10 rounds if America goes all in to the Pacific giving America a full 3 rounds to secure a victory city, if not 4 or 5 rounds to do so.