New approach to sub warfare.

[SSPanther]

One component of A&A that I have not been satisfied with is the ability, or lackthereof, to conduct any sort of meaningful form of convoy raids, especially with Germany.

One idea I have come up with is listed below, but really I want to know if anyone else out there has any good ones?

Idea: Subs have special ability to do immediate damage to convoys, but can only attack surface ships (for the sake of balance) at a 1.

Another idea I have is only allowing destroyers the ability to attack subs.

Let me know what you think, as I am simply looking for some ideas.

[Fishmoto37]

@SSPanther:

One component of A&A that I have not been satisfied with is the ability, or lackthereof, to conduct any sort of meaningful form of convoy raids, especially with Germany.

One idea I have come up with is listed below, but really I want to know if anyone else out there has any good ones?

Idea: Subs have special ability to do immediate damage to convoys, but can only attack surface ships (for the sake of balance) at a 1.

Another idea I have is only allowing destroyers the ability to attack subs.

Let me know what you think, as I am simply looking for some ideas.

DD sinks sub on a roll of one or detects on a roll of two. Detected subs then can be attacked by other DDs and CAs that have been commited to the battle. The hunter DDs do not roll again until the second round of combat. Of course the sub that survives one round will probably submerge.

[Gargantua]

So you’ll have to match my sub purchases with dd purchases?  And I defend at a 1, whilst you are just trying to detect me?  I don’t know how well that would work… seems to hard to kill the subs.

[Fishmoto37]

@Gargantua:

So you’ll have to match my sub purchases with dd purchases?  And I defend at a 1, whilst you are just trying to detect me?  I don’t know how well that would work… seems to hard to kill the subs.

Will test this out in a game scheduled for fri. 03/25/11.

[Pvt.Ryan]

Or use the rule where you need one destroyer per sub if the group is bigger than two. This makes wolf packs. If you don’t have enough subs than it doesn’t work. But actually this is a NA for Germany. Pretty useless when compared to your rule. I don’t even know why I’m typing I’m SOOOOOOO tired  :-P

[Fishmoto37]

@Gargantua:

So you’ll have to match my sub purchases with dd purchases?  And I defend at a 1, whilst you are just trying to detect me?  I don’t know how well that would work… seems to hard to kill the subs.

Well Gar, it is harder to kill subs as we found out in our last 1939 game. That is the whole point. We want to make the subs a more effective unit. In the 1940G OOB rules you can have a German wolf pack of six subs and an allied power can send one destroyer and half a dozen planes and just about wipe out all the subs in one combat round. That is just ludicrous!

[Pvt.Ryan]

If you use the house rules they can submerge first turn and there all safe.

[Fishmoto37]

There is a current discussion going on under 1940 Global concerning the poor OOB rules for subs. I have listed our sub house rules above. They have been working well for us. Yes the subs are now harder to take out. But that requires the U.S. and U.K. to commit destroyers to go sub hunting and bring in the ASW cruiser sometimes to finish the kill. This gives the sub some value besides just being fodder for large sea battles. Also gives some extra value to the cruiser. I have been disgusted with the OOB subs ever since the first game of 1940 Europe that I played.

[Pvt.Ryan]

Maybe add it so tacs and maybe fighters can sink subs, as in the war they did adapt to this tactic.

[Gargantua]

No offense, but if ONLY Cruisers and Destroyers can attack subs, I would totally PERVERT this rule as the Axis.

You could basically bankrupt UK and USA before they get geared up to fight.

Scrambling would never protect you.

You’d have to allow fighters and tac’s to engage.

[Fishmoto37]

@Gargantua:

No offense, but if ONLY Cruisers and Destroyers can attack subs, I would totally PERVERT this rule as the Axis.

You could basically bankrupt UK and USA before they get geared up to fight.

Scrambling would never protect you.

You’d have to allow fighters and tac’s to engage.

Hey Gar, are you proposing that the Axis might flood the Atlantic with Submarines? What will the Russians be doing if the Germs spend all their income on subs? I may try the tac and fighter sub attack in our next game to see how much difference it makes. Of course the DDs will still have to locate the sub first. By the way we have been using Tigerman’s global map for our games.

[Gargantua]

well considering how many subs you start with, Germany could easily build 3 or 4 subs a turn.

I seem to do just fine against Russia - after Sealion, which is MORE expensive then a sub flood.  And I get to keep the ground units I don’t use.

With a Basic German naval build G1, you can still threaten sea-lion, forcing england to build troops, and if by G2, you had say, 8 subs - which can be in range of england. What are they going to do?  Build off of Canada I guess?  at a 1 to 1 ratio,  with a few supporting german planes 4 or 5.  You can keep england down and out for a long time, just by matching thier Dst builds with Sub builds… Scrambling isn’t going to save them because you can match their air power.

Now there’s alot more to be said to go with that strat, but I don’t have time.

Testy situation.  Planes HAVE to be able to hit the subs…

[axis_roll]

AARe (Enhanced) incoporated a sub detection phase to the naval battle sequence.
Once detected, subs could be killed by any attacking unit (ships and planes)

The problem with just porting over this concept and game play mechanics is that subs are now $6 instead of $8.  Forcing detection on $6 subs would probably make them too good of a unit.

Of course, I am speaking about AA50, I have no exposure to Global, so I don’t know if there are price unit changes

[Gargantua]

No exporsure to Global???  Where have you been???

[axis_roll]

@Gargantua:

No exporsure to Global???  Where have you been???

Two reasons:

1).  AA50 is still new enough for me to not be tired of it.
  IMHO, the A&A tag is being a bit overused/milked/diluted

apologies to the fanatical

2).  I have a life, outside of A&A.  I know, crazy as that sounds.  I do love the game, but not enough to forgo my wife, my two daughters, my career and other things instead of being tied to a game board/computer, especially when the weather allows outdoor activities.

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You asked!

[Young Grasshopper]

50th for me is a great game, but it became obsolete with the arrival of the Europe and Pacific 1940 games. The new board, new units and new rules are awesome (however the new strategic bombing rules suck). I had no problem switching over without getting divorced but beware of it’s addictive powers. The real blood sucking rip off of all time was A&A spring 1941 or whatever that was. Why would they sell us that garbage when they knew that global was right around the corner I have no idea. Anyway… Long story short, buy global already, the fun factor gap is to wide to continue with A&A50thAE. It’s like your still playing super Mario classic just because you haven’t collected everything perfectly. My suggestion is to buy Global and combine all your components from your 50th edition and tell your wife and kids to visit the in-laws for a week.

[defcon1]

Subs carry 8 torpedeos and destroyers carry 9 depth charges. Subs can fire 2 torpedeos and destroyers can fire 3 depth charges a turn. Sub attack at 5, defend at 4. Destroyer attack and defend at 4. Subs can be submerged when firing. This is using a 12 sided die.