Color for Japan

[GoSanchez6]

I think this topic might generate a little interest. I have read over the years that a lot of people don’t like the color of Japan. Let’s put it to a vote. I personally like mustard. It is a dark yellow that looks tough and the color would stand out. Also it was closer to the color of their uniforms than the orange. I am by no means calling Japanese people yellow. Once again I hate Pc. Let me know what you think. This is the first poll I have ever posted. Cheers Guys/Gals

[knp7765]

Hi Dave.  I picked the 2nd choice, Original yellow/tan.  Your idea of Mustard was a very close second.  I like that idea and think the pieces would look pretty cool.  I always thought the bright red that came with the original A&A Pacific was really odd.  I don’t want white for Japan because I use white for neutrals.  The current OOB orange, some call it burnt orange, I never really cared for either.  However, I think we are pretty much stuck with that color for Japan.  I don’t think WOTC will change it now and when FMG makes their Japanese pieces, they are going to match them to the Combat Dice, which are also burnt orange.

[Tigerman77]

IMG_1103.JPG. This is what I use for my variant…burnt orange as my regular troops, blue for my snlf, and yellow for my veteran troops.

[knp7765]

Hey Tigerman77,
Just curious, what are your differences between the regular and veteran troops?  I know that SNLF are like US Marines.  Do your veteran troops have higher attack/defense ratings than regular troops?

[CWO Marc]

I found the original yellow colour in the Milton Bradley edition too close to the British tan to distinguish easily.

@knp7765:

Just curious, what are your differences between the regular and veteran troops?  I know that SNLF are like US Marines.  Do your veteran troops have higher attack/defense ratings than regular troops?

For gaming purposes, treating the Japanese SNLF as Marines is convenient…but it should be noted that the SNLF weren’t in the same league as either the USMC or the Royal Marines.  James Dunnigan’s book “Victory at Sea: World War II in the Pacific” has a section in which he argues that the Special Naval Landing Forces were essentially sailors who were trained to fight on land when needed.  The U.S. Marines, by contrast, were (and are) an elite fighting force functioning as a distinct organization, having its own combat doctrine, led by its own body of officers drawn from the Corps itself, and having great expertise in (and specialized equipment for) conducting amphibious assults.  Dunnigan listed additional differences, but I can’t remember the others.

[Pvt.Ryan]

Yeah the Marines are skilled fighters at naval combat. However they have seen action on planets surface like on Reach. Oh wait… what year is it?

[DrLarsen]

I treated this poll as a “if you could start all over and pick the Japanese color…”  I realize that we’re probably stuck with the burnt orange…

By mustard (which i voted for) I’m thinking of something close to the color used in the WF Singapore game… is that what you were intending Sanchez?  And is that the color you use for your veterans, Tigerman?

[Tigerman77]

In my global rules the Japanese have alot of their infantry and fighter as veteran at the beginning of the game. I used this to represent japans experience in warfare with almost 6 years at war with china before 1939. Veterans attack at a 4 or less and defend on a 5. I used the red Japanese from the pacific game until I traded mine for a brand new never been opened one, so I use the yellow now. As for the snlf, they were not elite as one might think, but japan had units that would assault an island and the perform garrison duties….these were the hard core burn them out I’m committing suicide before I and a POW guys!!!  Let’s face it, japan could use the help!!!

[DrLarsen]

@Tigerman77:

In my global rules the Japanese have alot of their infantry and fighter as veteran at the beginning of the game. I used this to represent japans experience in warfare with almost 6 years at war with china before 1939. Veterans attack at a 4 or less and defend on a 5. I used the red Japanese from the pacific game until I traded mine for a brand new never been opened one, so I use the yellow now. As for the snlf, they were not elite as one might think, but japan had units that would assault an island and the perform garrison duties….these were the hard core burn them out I’m committing suicide before I and a POW guys!!!  Let’s face it, japan could use the help!!!

But what exact color are they?  Like the WF Singapore Japanese?  [Note that I can’t see the image in your message at all!]

And why blue for SNLF?  I would think that just using the Red Japanese would work just as well, and maybe look better along-side them…  (…and Coach sells them along with the painted blue ones on his site.)

[Pvt.Ryan]

Tiger I love the setup for 1939 a really well put together game. I like all the special units but probablly Japan’s and Germany’s first. Nice idea on the veteran fighters and infantry. As for color i’d have to say OOB version cause thats all I’ve ever used. But I’d like bright red if anything else.

[Tigerman77]

Sorry guys, You should  be  able to veiw this picture.  This weekend I’m also experimenting with Naval Tac bombers and Fighters for the US and Japan.  Naval Tac cost is +1, Att/Def is same except, while attacking if Tac rolls a 2 or less, naval Tac can target any naval vessal of its choosing. Same with Naval Fighter except naval fighter may target any unit!  Tell me what you guys think.  My veteran fighters are yellow like the infantry and my naval Tacs and fighteras are Blue like my jap marines.

[GoSanchez6]

Dr.larsen I mean kind of like the color in clue of col.mustard. Deep yellow with almost a hint of brown. I think it would be very identifiable on the gameboard and it is closer to the color of their uniforms than orange. I imagine most of us are watching the FMG pieces debate and I guess if he is going to make 2 colors for Germany why not Japan. I know he would do the orange first like he is doing grey for Germany first I just have read a lot of complaints about Japan color and I thought with a loud enough voice we might get some notice.

[DrLarsen]

@Tigerman77:

Sorry guys, You should  be  able to veiw this picture.  This weekend I’m also experimenting with Naval Tac bombers and Fighters for the US and Japan.  Naval Tac cost is +1, Att/Def is same except, while attacking if Tac rolls a 2 or less, naval Tac can target any naval vessal of its choosing. Same with Naval Fighter except naval fighter may target any unit!  Tell me what you guys think.  My veteran fighters are yellow like the infantry and my naval Tacs and fighteras are Blue like my jap marines.

OK, I see: looks like both your Japanese “specials” are oob with a home-made coat of paint… I’m still not getting why the blue as your choice for SNLF, but your “veterans” look very close to the color of the original MB Japanese non-infantry pieces.  (In the original MB version, the infantry was close to the current OOB color while the rest of the pieces were a distinctly yellowish tan that was a bit too close to the UK color…)  I was envisioning something with a more greenish tinge to it, which would maybe be perfect for SNLF, since, as I understand it, the only real uniform difference between IJA and SNLF combat uniforms were different helmet logos and a slightly more greenish or olive tint to the uniform.

On the naval aircraft angle, I tend to think that the key difference ought to be simply that they can take off from ships, which was really the main thing that separated them from IJA planes…

[DrLarsen]

@GoSanchez6:

Dr.larsen I mean kind of like the color in clue of col.mustard. Deep yellow with almost a hint of brown. I think it would be very identifiable on the gameboard and it is closer to the color of their uniforms than orange. I imagine most of us are watching the FMG pieces debate and I guess if he is going to make 2 colors for Germany why not Japan. I know he would do the orange first like he is doing grey for Germany first I just have read a lot of complaints about Japan color and I thought with a loud enough voice we might get some notice.

I think I’d rather see them in either the WF greenish yellow or oob, as either would give them better compatibility with another piece set…

[Pvt.Ryan]

SNLF are blue cause there marines. Just kinda fits. I mean green isn’t much better.

[knp7765]

Hey Dr Larsen, check this out.  Not all of the Japanese Infantry pieces from the Milton Bradley game were the darker shade of yellow.  I recently got a lot of pieces from a seller on eBay which included a bunch of the original game pieces.  I was surprised to find the Japanese Infantry were a very pale yellow, almost the same color as all the other Japanese units.  See the pic below, the one on the right is the current infantry piece from the 1940 games, the center piece is from the MB game and is probably what you are more used to, as was I.  The Left piece is one from this bunch that I just received yet it is ALSO from the MB game.  I didn’t know they came in this light a shade until now.

[GoSanchez6]

I know some people went with orange because of FMG’s awesome combat dice. I believe in an earlier post Jeremy said he might make black combat dice for Germany. If he does this maybe he would consider another one for Japan. I understand he has a lot on his plate this would be something I think for the future. I think a mustard yellow combat dice with the red rising sun would contrast and beautifully. It might be the best looking of them all.

[Pvt.Ryan]

You know I think my favorite part about the Japanese Infantry is the 2 foot long bayonet on their rifle. Ahhhhh good Ol bonzai house rules…

[DrLarsen]

@knp7765:

Hey Dr Larsen, check this out.  Not all of the Japanese Infantry pieces from the Milton Bradley game were the darker shade of yellow.  I recently got a lot of pieces from a seller on eBay which included a bunch of the original game pieces.  I was surprised to find the Japanese Infantry were a very pale yellow, almost the same color as all the other Japanese units.  See the pic below, the one on the right is the current infantry piece from the 1940 games, the center piece is from the MB game and is probably what you are more used to, as was I.  The Left piece is one from this bunch that I just received yet it is ALSO from the MB game.  I didn’t know they came in this light a shade until now.

Interesting… you learn something new every day…

For me the key is simply having decent infantry in 1 other color for some sort of elite/SNLF unit.  Since in the real world SNLF fighters were armed like and looked like IJA soldiers almost exactly (except for a slight difference in the shade of their uniform which is barely noticeable) a different sculpt isn’t essential for me.  Since I have plenty of Red AAP and olive WF infantry, I feel like I have this covered.  Throw in the fact that both WF and TT give a decent tank upgrade with a Chi-Ha in about the right size, that leaves me with the position that the main thing I’d like to see for Japan is a fuller naval line-up.  Since FMG seems committed to their program which includes only one of each naval type, and I haven’t yet seen much interest from any of the other venders in an expanded naval piece set, I’m increasingly thinking I’ll probably have to resort to buying and painting a bunch of Panzerschiffen to expand this side of the game…

[knp7765]

Maybe coach of many will make new ships with the new sets he is proposing.  He is planning on making new pieces sets that will fill in some of the gaps left by WOTC and FMG sets.