Can the US enter the Soviet Union via the Soviet Far East with ground troops on transports and/or air units flying in once it is; (1) at war with Japan and (2) the Soviets and Japanese are not at war yet, therefore still under the non-aggressive pact treaty?
1. Is this just a non-issue and the US can go in and even cross the boarder at Amur and fight the Japanese without affecting the treaty between the Soviets and Japanese? , OR
2. Is it a violation of the treaty on the Soviet side, thus giving the Japanese the 12IPCs? , OR
3. Is it just totally illegal for the US to do and they cannot enter the Soviet Union until war between the Soviets and Japanese?
This all comes down to NEUTRAL restrictions.
When not at war in the Pacific, Russia must abide by the Nuetral Restrictions.
If a state of war does not exsist between Russia and Japan, then on the U.S. turn, NO the Americans cannot enter the Russia territory, as per the Neutral restrictions.
However, IF Japan were to attack Russia on it’s turn and make a DOW, then YES on the U.S. Turn they could enter. Or if Russia Attacked Japan.
As for the 12 IPC’s, you can’t Declare war on someone when it’s not your turn IE to block naval moves or something, or to allow allied units to land in your territories. So unless Japan makes a DOW on Russia, the USA is SOL, and no one gets the 12 IPC’s. If the Russians make the DOW JUST to allow American planes to land on the next American turn, Japan then gets the 12 IPC’s
3. Yes.
I understand that you are saying that the US cannot go in until the Soviet and Japanese are at war, however I am still confused as to the logic.
You stated that the Russia must abide by the Neutral Restrictions. They are not violating them in my scenario; the US is the only ones moving. Does it state in the Soviets Neutral Restrictions that no nation can enter them; I thought it just stated that they cannot enter another country until at war on each side.
So if the US is the ones moving to the Soviets why is this considered the Soviets violating the neutral restrictions. Still sonfused???
Well the U.S. can’t enter Canada, or the U.K. until at war, or any british territory for that matter.
And Russia can’t enter the U.K.
So it’s the same logic.
Anzac can’t fly planes to Hawaii for example as well…
If you have a transport in Alaska you may do so
In my example the US is at war. The Soviets can be at war with Germny/Italy also. I know all the reason as you stated above that countries not at was cannot enter other countries freely.
However, the question is; "Can the US enter the Soviet Union via the Soviet Far East with ground troops on transports and/or air units flying in once it is; (1) at war with Japan and (2) the Soviets and Japanese are not at war yet, therefore still under the non-aggressive pact treaty?
However, the question is; "Can the US enter the Soviet Union via the Soviet Far East with ground troops on transports and/or air units flying in once it is; (1) at war with Japan and (2) the Soviets and Japanese are not at war yet, therefore still under the non-aggressive pact treaty?
I don’t know if there are any rule about it, but if we were playing a game together and the issue shows up, I would argue the following:
US Troops can enter the USSR via de Far East, as long as they are not engaged in any hostile activity against Japanese forces.
i.e.: if for some odd reason the USA wants to reinforce the USSR via the Far East, in order to get to Europe from there (long walk from Siberia to Moscow though), well, that’s ok.
But, if the US is trying to use Soviet territory as a base to attack Japan, that would be read by Japan as an act of war from the USSR. So I would say that the USSR is declaring war against Japan by doing so.
in both cases, the USSR would loose her NO’s additional IPC
When a power is not at war with anyone, not only is it not allowed to move units into another power’s territory, but other powers are not allowed to move units into its territories.
Gargantua is correct if you’re playing by the Alpha rules or the box rules with the (future) errata, as they make the neutral restrictions theatre-specific on the USSR. However, if you’re playing strictly by the published box rules, it’s OK as long as the USSR is at war with anyone.
No they can’t. As Gargantua said. If the USSR is not at war with Japan, then the soviet territories on the pacific map are considered neutral and as such an ally even if its at war may not enter the neutral territory.
Once either Japan or the USSR declare war on each other may the other allied nations land or fly over the USSR territories on the pacific side of the map.
Only Japan and Russia can end the non-agression pact NO, if they so choose.
Edit: Looks like Kreighund answered while I was typing this out, so what he said.
Thanks to all involved. I was in fact talking Alpha rules and it seemed logical to me that the US could not move in to the Soviets with out there being consequences. I just could not find it anywhere to justify it.
I guess the best answer is per Krieghund, “When a power is not at war with anyone, not only is it not allowed to move units into another power’s territory, but other powers are not allowed to move units into its territories. I assume by your answer Krieghund that the second part will be part of the future errata.
Thanks again….
No, that part’s in the Rulebook. The part that will be in the errata (and is in Alpha) is that being at war with Germany/Italy doesn’t lift the neutrality restrictions from the USSR on the Pacific map and being at war with Japan doesn’t lift them on the Europe map.
Thanks Kreighund, guess I’ve gotten’ so wrapped up in new Alpha rules, I forgot about the rule books….
