The key to (killing) Russia's heart is in Nenetsia, 2.0

[gsh34]

If you are named Rick Bunnell (my opponent) and you are reading this, STOP.  I will be using this against you in our future game.

Alright ladies and gents,

I have thought this KRF strat through in much more detail (I am using the Alpha set up).  Let’s see what you think….

Round 1:
Germany:

G1 purchase:
1 carrier
2 transports
(total: 30 ipc)

Combat:
SZ 112- battleship, cruiser, sub, 2 fighters (average outcome: tipped battleship or tipped battleship and sub lost)
SZ 111- 2 tacticals, fighter, sub (averages 2 tacticals left)
SZ 110- fighter, tactical, 2 subs (averages fighter and tactical left)
SZ 109- bomber, sub (averages both remain)
France-  all available ground units (averages 2 mechs and five tanks left)
Yugoslavia-6 inf and art from Greater S. Germany, three tanks from adjacent territories that can make it. (average loss of 2 inf)

Noncombat:
Two fighters remain in SZ 112 to land on new carrier.  The remainder of the air force lands in W. Germany.  One inf from Romania actives Bulgaria.  One inf from Norway activates Finland.
Two infantry in Poland moves to Slovakia.
6 infantry from Germany move to W. Germany.
4 art from Germany move to Slovakia

Placement:
Carrier and two transports go to SZ 112.

Collect:
68 ipc.

Japan:

I am not going to give every step-by-step move with Japan because it is straight forward what they need to do for this strategy.  What matters most is setting up the most direct route to Russia as possible.  This means transporting fast units (tanks especially) from Japan to Jehol.  The land route here will be to attack from Jehol to Chahar on J1. J2, attack Suiyuyan. J3, attack Kansu.  J4, attack Novosibirsk. J5, blitz through Volodga to Russia if possible. To be honest, I don’t think getting Japanese ground to Moscow is will be the winning move in this strategy.  What will help win it is what the Japanese air force does.

J1 build:
1 transports and 3 tanks.  This saves 1 ipc.

Combat:
Move all ground units that can go into Chahar there.  All ground units from Shantung and Kiangsu into Anhwe.  I think most units from Kiangsi should go to Anhwe also, but you could use some to attack Hunan along with airforce to kill the Chinese ground units.    Attack Yunnan as you see fit.

Noncombat:
Transport in SZ 20 moves to SZ 6.  Transport in SZ 6 moves inf and tank from Japan to Jehol.  Position all planes so that they can land in Chahar on J2.

Placement:
Transport in SZ 6 and 3 tanks in Japan.

Collect:
about 30 ipc depending what you do beyond the critical stuff.

Italy(I1):

For this strat, I think the only thing that Italy must do is move both of its tanks to Romania

Round 2:
G2 Purchase:
8 transports and 2 tanks. (This spends all 68)

Combat:
I don’t think there will be any combat this round.

Noncombat:
All the tanks and mech infantry can make it to W. Germany.  This will give you 6 inf, 8 tanks, and 2 mech.  Position entire air force (except for the two fighters on the carrier) so that it can land in Bessarabia on G3 (for this to work, Italy will attack and take Bessarabia with its 2 tanks and 2 fighters on I2).

At the end of G2, Germany will have 11 transports in SZ 112 which can be loaded with 5 inf from Norway/Finland, 6 inf from W. Germany, 10 tanks and one mech from W. Germany.

Placement:
8 transports into SZ 112.  2 tanks into W. Germany.

Collect: 49 ipc

Japan (J2):

The critical thing that must be done here is build an airfield in Chahar and have all 20 of your planes land there.  Advance all other ground units toward Russia on the route previously described.  Buy tanks to fill up your transports and continue to shuck them to Jehol.

Italy (I2):
Italy must take Bessarabia on this round with its tanks (and fighters if needed).

Round 3

Germany (G3):
At this point I don’t think the build will matter much.  Now it’s time for the action!!!

Load transports with 11 inf, 10 tank, and 1 mech as previously described.  Move naval force to SZ 127.  Land all units in Nenetsia.

For noncombat, all planes land in Bessarabia.

Of course after seeing this, Russia will fall back to protect Moscow and probably place blocking units in Vologda.  However, I don’t think it matters how many units they place there because…

Japan (J3):
All the planes in Chahar have a five movement due the airfield built there on J2.  This means all 20 planes can clean out any units in Vologda and land in Nenetsia with the German ground units.

Now, the only thing that could mess this up is if the UK had built a bomber.  On UK3 it could fly to Volgda from London.  However, seeing the German build, how many UK players are honestly going to build a bomber?

Italy (I3):
edit-Italy must build and airfield in Bessarabia. Other than that for this strategy, I think Italy has done its key job already and can do what ever else it needs to.

Round 4:
Germany (G4):
To be honest, I don’t know exactly what Russia will have in Moscow, but the blitz route will be open from Nenetsia, through Vologda to Moscow with 10 tanks, 1 mech infantry, and everything that remains of your air force in Bessarabia.  My idea in conjunction with this strategy was have only one unit (maybe even none) in Poland and Slovakia to entice Russia to advance its unit to the front.  This way, the bulk of the units will be too far to turn back and recapture Moscow.  The plus with the Japanese planes is that if Russia is unable to immediately retake Moscow, the Japanese could land their entire air force of 20 planes (depending on the battle in Vologda) in Moscow for defense.  This would virtually lock it down on round 4.

One other thing to do if Russia simply has to many troops in Moscow would be on G4 to advance only to Vologda.  Then on J4, the entire Japanese air force could soften up Moscow for a G5 attack of 11 inf, 10 tanks, 1 mech, ~3 fighters, ~3 tactical bombers, and 1 strategic bomber.  Of course, the drawback here is that Russia will have had two rounds to turn its troops back and try to recapture Moscow.  On the flip side though, by now, Japanese ground units will be ready for an attack on Moscow either on J5 or J6.

Thoughts or comments from anyone please?

[technobabble66]

I’d b v curious as to how this goes. It sounds v cunning!

I’d have a minor reservation tho: by G4 at Moscow USSR could potentially hv 38 inf, 2 mech, 2 art, 2 tanks, 2 ftrs, 1 tac
(calc’d from pure inf builds for 3 rnds plus some adjacent stuff moved into defend moscow)
That’s 42@2, 4@3, 1@4.
An extra rnd to hit w everything is an extra 12 inf (that’s 54@2, et al).

I calc’d the approx chances of a German (ground) thrust directly for Moscow starting at rnd 1 - a strategy my play group had been discussing. You can hit with 7 inf, 11 mech, 8 tanks, 5 ftr, 7 tac, 4 strats.
That’s 18@1, 13@3, 11@4

I think working w some averages (maybe hoping for a slight edge for the german dice) the germans probably take Moscow with 1-2 tanks and maybe 1-3 surviving air units (tacs/strats). Kinda depends if AA hits anything. And it 4 rnds of combat. A lot can happen in 4 rnds!

Generalising massively, the addition of Japanese planes roughly compensates for the extra 12 russian inf and reduced ground units to allow a G5 strike on moscow. I can’t see a G4 strike being possible with ur tactic unless USSR builds poorly.
That kinda means i think it might work, especially if you get some early luck on dice rolls in the moscow combats. Similarly you could lose it all and barely scratch the ruskies ;-(

My calc’s were based on the issue that a few of us in my play group are of the opinion that all USSR has to do for the entire game is defend Russia by building purely Inf and stacking them in Moscow, while attempting to delay the germans/japs as best as possible. Hence, the idea there are abt 38 inf sitting in moscow at G4 may not apply to many games…

I hope my 2 cents worth isn’t completely superfluous - i’m guessing this sort of analysis has been discussed already but i’ve missed it.

My other reservations are: What are the other allies doing? and does Japan just forgo it’s conquering of the money islands & India? Can the control of moscow result in a game-win if Japan is heavily weakened in the Pacific?

NB: i’ll happily admit i hv only played a single game of global (and that was last night!), tho i’ve played a fair few games of Pacific, Europe and Anniversary. I played germany and hit USSR at G2. I charged at Moscow, stopping first at Leningrad and hit it with an enormous stack by G6 or G7 - unfortunately also defended by another enormous stack. Basically i lost, leaving only 3 USSR planes in moscow. Consequently i’ve spent a bit of time today doing some analysis of options, such as the stuff i mentioned above.

My assumptions could easily b wrong, so i’d still luv to see you hv a crack at it!!

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Interesting. Usually i worry about a 25ipc India funneling troops into Russia so my Japan goes after India pretty heavy. Turn 4 though is quick.

Thanks for figuring out the math btw.

I might feint at this to distract the Russians from supporting China and India. Thus helping my general goal of letting Japan conquer the world.

[gsh34]

This Nenetsia move has been rattling around in my head for a few days and I think I have found a killer modification to it thanks to being pounded by a US complex in Norway.  Why not have Germany build a major complex in Norway?  See what you think of the new modifications.

Round 1
Germany1
Purchase is the same as before: carrier and two transports for SZ 112.

Naval combat is the same.

For non-combat, make sure to land the bomber in Norway. Non-combat move two infantry from Poland to Norway when going to SZ112  Move everything away from the Russian boarder.  I want his units to feel safe in advancing away from Moscow.

Unit placement is the same.

You should end with 68 ipc for income

Japan1
Same as before.  Make sure to take Chahar.  Even bring the mech from Manchuria.  Position all planes so that they can land in Chahar on J2.

Italy1
I’m not sure anything Italy does has an effect with my changes.  However, they may need to do something after we begin to fully hash this out.

Round2
Germany2
Purchase 5 transports and one major complex.

I don’t think there will be any combat.  At the minimum, nothing major as the UK should have turtled up after my G1 build.

Make sure you have 8 inf and 8 tanks in W. Germany that can load onto the transports for G3.

Place transports in SZ112 and major complex in Norway.

Japan2
Build air base in Chahar and land all planes there.

Italy2
Again, I don’t think they have a critical role.

Round3
Germany3

Build 8 tanks for Norway.  Load transports in S112 from W. Germany and land 16 units in Nenetsia.  Position all planes in Norway.

Japan3
All 20 planes (alpha set up) can fly 5 spaces from Chahar to Nenetsia.

Italy3
Not critical

Round4
Germany4

Build…I don’t know.  At this point it is hard to plan out.  It could depend on where the UK and US will be able to land in Europe on this round.

Advance 16 units from Nenetsia to Vologda.  I think Russia could have a good counter attack here, but that is ok.  If they do, they will most likely have to commit a huge amount of their ground units.  Even if they do win, Japan will have 20 planes in Nenetsia that can clear out Vologda because Germany will non-combat move the 8 inf and 8 tanks in Norway to Nenetsia.  The 8 tanks just placed in Nenetsia could blitz through to Moscow.  Along with the tanks, all German planes will fly from Norway to Nenetsia on G4 so that they can contribute to the G5 attack on Moscow.

The G5 attack on Moscow would be at minimum 8 tanks plus 6-7 planes (assuming they took Vologda and Japan then cleared them out).  If Russia doesn’t attack the 16 Germany units in Vologda on R4, then on J4, Japan could use its 20 planes to attack Moscow and soften them up if needed.  On G5, Germany would then be attacking with 8 inf, 16 tanks, and 6-7 planes.

A plus for this strategy is that the whole time it will preserve the chance of doing Sealion AFTER Moscow has fallen.

[special forces]

Interesting idea. But i wonder what the effect of the (i admit, temporary) absence of all those japanese planes in Asia will be

[technobabble66]

The latter mod is much better - additional tanks for backup from a major IC in Norway is a gr8 idea. Using it for possible sealion could work. I’d imagine the UK navy might be a bit stronger by the time moscow falls, and the japanese could be in a slightly precarious position after losing their airforce “softening” up moscow.
The psychology/bluffing of players can b a v impt part of the game, but it’s more of a gamble than the dice sometimes. The ploy of falling back from the russian front may look highly suspicious or may look exactly like a pre-sealion move.
I’d b v v curious to see how the allies respond to this, particularly in a multiplayer game of 4-5 players. 1 ally may easily miss the possible moves, but i’ve found in my overall A&A experience that u just need 1 of a few opponents to get suspicious and the bluffs get v difficult ;-(

The major IC in Norway may solve multiple problems with this and other strategies - Norway is more defendable generally, and with a decent navy to protect them, a few transports can continuously dump backup/expeditions into northern russia. Having the ability to strike beyond the conventional Eastern front may distract the USSR considerably.

[Jercules]

Great strategy. An added consideration is the fact that Japan can strategically bomb Moscow on J3 with 4 bombers, landing them in Nenetsia.

I would be less worried about the Moscow stack and more worried about what’s in Leningrad. Unless a G4 Moscow strike is possible, the Leningrad stack can move to Archangel and force a showdown. You do have the advantage though, in that worst case scenario, comes to worse, Leningrad should be the consolation prize.

I think you can afford even less commitment from Japan. Getting that tank with a mech or two + the airfield in Chadar should be sufficient.

[Kobu]

It’s an interesting strat, but still doesn’t address the US devouring Italy, and then grinding Germany into the dust in a couple more turns.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@SalothSar:

I always build a destroyer on R1 and put it in Sz 125 R2 to protect the Russian NO. So unless you declare war on the Soviets G2 your not going anywhere >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Such a grand plan<> so easy to stop!

Russia only gets that NO if at war with germany or Italy

[SgtBlitz]

Oh noes Italy sends a fighter(s) from N. Italy to SZ 125 on its turn; OH NOES MY PLANZ ARE RUINED!!!11!!!1one

[special forces]

Looks like some members here are unbalanced  :-)

[calvinhobbesliker]

@SgtBlitz:

Oh noes Italy sends a fighter(s) from N. Italy to SZ 125 on its turn; OH NOES MY PLANZ ARE RUINED!!!11!!!1one

LOL.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@SalothSar:

To stop this masterplan all the Russians have to do is put naval units in Sz 125,126 & 112…. 3 seperate targets for that huge Italian airforce. An experienced USSR player would see the Japanese airbase is meant for them and move/buy forces accordingly. No Japanese player would ever build an airbase in Northern China to attack Chinese units or British in India.

Germans attack Z125 with sub plus massive airforce, killing it and cancelling NO.

[gsh34]

@SalothSar:

To stop this masterplan all the Russians have to do is put naval units in Sz 125,126 & 112…. 3 seperate targets for that huge Italian airforce. An experienced USSR player would see the Japanese airbase is meant for them and move/buy forces accordingly. No Japanese player would ever build an airbase in Northern China to attack Chinese units or British in India.

True, but in order to do this, Russia would need to buy, at a minimum three destroyers, since a lone enemy sub can be ignored.  24 ipc is not an inconsequential amount of money for Russia.  Since this has the potential of a G3 move for Germany, Russia would have to do the purchase on R1 so that they could move them into blocking position on R2.  What Russian player is going to do a three destroyer build on R1?  Also, Japan doesn’t even buy the air base until J2 which would be way too late for Russia to respond with a naval build.  R2 already happened!!!  Germany goes next which means G3 happens and there isn’t anything Russia can do in response to the Japanese air field/air force movement.

[special forces]

@SalothSar:

@gsh34:

@SalothSar:

To stop this masterplan all the Russians have to do is put naval units in Sz 125,126 & 112…. 3 seperate targets for that huge Italian airforce. An experienced USSR player would see the Japanese airbase is meant for them and move/buy forces accordingly. No Japanese player would ever build an airbase in Northern China to attack Chinese units or British in India.

True, but in order to do this, Russia would need to buy, at a minimum three destroyers, since a lone enemy sub can be ignored.  24 ipc is not an inconsequential amount of money for Russia.  Since this has the potential of a G3 move for Germany, Russia would have to do the purchase on R1 so that they could move them into blocking position on R2.  What Russian player is going to do a three destroyer build on R1?  Also, Japan doesn’t even buy the air base until J2 which would be way too late for Russia to respond with a naval build.  R2 already happened!!!  Germany goes next which means G3 happens and there isn’t anything Russia can do in response to the Japanese air field/air force movement.

I like the first word in your reply, “TRUE” so you agree you masterplan can be easily stopped!

IF (note this first word) you waste nearly a round of income to buy ships, even before any sign of this “masterplan”. Sounds better to me to buy 8 inf instead and move another 8 to in Nenetsia ASAP. At least those will later be useful.
I might consider 1 DD turn 1 though.

Edit: Might make more sense to put some INF and ART in Archangel, and some mech/tanks within a 2 zone reach of nenetsia. That way, when Germany gets there, you have the chance to kick them out. If you retake it, Japan’s planes won’t be landing anywhere.

If they manage to get Nene ànd land planes, it’ll be Russia’s job (playing inbetween Germany and Japan) to try to take advantage of the moment both axis troops split up.

[gsh34]

@SalothSar:

@gsh34:

@SalothSar:

To stop this masterplan all the Russians have to do is put naval units in Sz 125,126 & 112…. 3 seperate targets for that huge Italian airforce. An experienced USSR player would see the Japanese airbase is meant for them and move/buy forces accordingly. No Japanese player would ever build an airbase in Northern China to attack Chinese units or British in India.

True, but in order to do this, Russia would need to buy, at a minimum three destroyers, since a lone enemy sub can be ignored.  24 ipc is not an inconsequential amount of money for Russia.  Since this has the potential of a G3 move for Germany, Russia would have to do the purchase on R1 so that they could move them into blocking position on R2.  What Russian player is going to do a three destroyer build on R1?  Also, Japan doesn’t even buy the air base until J2 which would be way too late for Russia to respond with a naval build.  R2 already happened!!!  Germany goes next which means G3 happens and there isn’t anything Russia can do in response to the Japanese air field/air force movement.

I like the first word in your reply, “TRUE” so you agree you masterplan can be easily stopped!

No, it is not easily stopped.  To do the naval blocks that you suggest with the Russian naval units, they would have to purchase at minimum three destroyers on R1.  What Russian player would spend 24 ipc on R1 for three destroyers? If they wait until R2 to respond, it is too late and they can’t stop it!!!  Now, they can move there ground units around to have a counter attack into Nenetsia as some have suggested, but if those ground units are in Archangel or another adjacent territory to Nenetsia, then they aren’t at the western front waiting for Germany!

[SgtBlitz]

@SalothSar:

@gsh34:

@SalothSar:

@gsh34:

@SalothSar:

To stop this masterplan all the Russians have to do is put naval units in Sz 125,126 & 112…. 3 seperate targets for that huge Italian airforce. An experienced USSR player would see the Japanese airbase is meant for them and move/buy forces accordingly. No Japanese player would ever build an airbase in Northern China to attack Chinese units or British in India.

True, but in order to do this, Russia would need to buy, at a minimum three destroyers, since a lone enemy sub can be ignored.  24 ipc is not an inconsequential amount of money for Russia.  Since this has the potential of a G3 move for Germany, Russia would have to do the purchase on R1 so that they could move them into blocking position on R2.  What Russian player is going to do a three destroyer build on R1?  Also, Japan doesn’t even buy the air base until J2 which would be way too late for Russia to respond with a naval build.  R2 already happened!!!  Germany goes next which means G3 happens and there isn’t anything Russia can do in response to the Japanese air field/air force movement.

I like the first word in your reply, “TRUE” so you agree you masterplan can be easily stopped!

No, it is not easily stopped.  To do the naval blocks that you suggest with the Russian naval units, they would have to purchase at minimum three destroyers on R1.  What Russian player would spend 24 ipc on R1 for three destroyers? If they wait until R2 to respond, it is too late and they can’t stop it!!!  Now, they can move there ground units around to have a counter attack into Nenetsia as some have suggested, but if those ground units are in Archangel or another adjacent territory to Nenetsia, then they aren’t at the western front waiting for Germany!

Easily stopped

No, NOT easily stopped.  Even IF the 3 DDs somehow succeeded in blocking off Nenetsia and stopping the Italian FIGs from blasting a way through, Germany could just be like:  “Aw, screw this noise, I’m going to Britain after all!” and attempt a proper Sealion anyway.  You’ve just spent 24 IPCs that could of been used on the Eastern Front doing much more useful things.

[special forces]

Salothstar, unless you have great spies, you can’t know what your opponents are gonna do. Not on time.

So you’re gonna buy 3 DD’s every game when Germany buys fleet?

[gsh34]

@SgtBlitz:

No, NOT easily stopped.  Even IF the 3 DDs somehow succeeded in blocking off Nenetsia and stopping the Italian FIGs from blasting a way through, Germany could just be like:  “Aw, screw this noise, I’m going to Britain after all!” and attempt a proper Sealion anyway.  You’ve just spent 24 IPCs that could of been used on the Eastern Front doing much more useful things.

That was my entire point about suggesting this strategy.  Sealion is ALWAYS an option.  If Russia is soooooooooooooo concerned about Germany pulling this off because it bought a carrier and two transports on G1, go ahead and buy the destroyers.  Germany can still do a G3/G4 Sealion and then have fewer Russian ground units to deal with afterwards.  This was never designed to be a strategy that you are monolithically locked into doing.  It is something I wanted other players to be aware of in case Russia gets too big in its britches and pulls too many units away from Moscow or bought too many high priced units and thus have a unit deficiency.

[keplar]

i’ve been following this post since it started and i thought of offering this:

if Germany waits to attack til G4 then japan won’t need an airbase to help out. by J3, Japan can land their planes in Suiyuyan and still clear vologda for germany and possibly use bombers to help clear out Russia.