Challenge

[Blitchga]

Here is my problem and my I cannot seem to find any concrete effective strategies that are not playing huge luck games with the Axis. Our group has not seen the Axis win yet in roughly a dozen games. This is as you can guess quite alarming. I am reading about people winning as the axis which has been leading me to wonder whether they have seen something we have missed as the axis or if their allied players are just not as sharp as ours. As such I am hoping that people could give me some strategies with Germany and Italy. This is where the majority of our problems are occurring. Japan can become almost as big as the US but we have been wondering if that is enough to actually win.

Regardless we are hoping that people could express all of their Axis strategies in as much depth as they are willing. We have tried, Major industrial complex in Romania, Yugoslavia minor, subs to stall Atlantic, large transport force in the Mediterranean, Inf/Art combos against Russia, tank/mech combos against Russia, Factory in Egypt after taking it… we can simply never seem to stop the Allied advance.

Looking forward to some brain storming.

[Arminius Germanicus]

You really player a dozen games of AAGlobal ?

IMO no one can give you further advice,
seems that you tried most  of the common ideas for what the axis should do.
Problem is that you only can plan turn one to 100%.

If I were you I would try some NA only for the axis and see how this works out.
I would like to See Germany Start with 1 out of 3 techs…
Paratrooper , Rockets or Jet Fighter (Tech Rolls only allowed if you are at war and restriction to 3 rolls a turn & 1 breaktrough, so US wont put to much IPC in it).

Think that will Be Fun ;)

[LHoffman]

I am beginning to think those with the Axis victories had Allied players of lower skill level.

[Napoleon]

Then its all about timing, when do you declare war against Russia and USA?

Germany and Italy need to become economic monsters to stall the allied advance and then become bigger than the western allies.

[Stockus13]

In my groups games we have had one draw leaning towards the allies after 6 turns, called for time.

And we have had one axis victory. The big difference in the games was mostly due to dice, and where the US decided to go.

It seems so far that the game is very well balanced if both sides have equal skill levels, slight allied advantage.

I do have to say that Germany and Japan need to be played by experienced players, one small mistake and it costs them the game.

[Plasticdeathbydice]

Have played 3 incomplete games that got played basically to develop general strats and to get familiar with the game.

4 complete games - all to the allies, 2 pretty easy, 2 close ones.

ZERO mistakes by the axis can be made just to keep it close.

Be aggressive as hell with the Axis….and go J3…J1 and 2 attacks where the 2 that the allies won pretty easy…(J2 not as bad…but still bad)

I really think the US player MUST split there income…N.O. can go either way per US players discretion, but theatre money must be spent in corresponding theatre.  We will be playing our next few games this way…will report back in a week or two…

[bugoo]

Go for the money.  Each nation has a ‘target’ region where she will get the largest economic boosts and should go for that while helping out her allies.

Germany = Northern Russia/Russia.  Go after Novgorod and hold on to Norway.  Slowly push russia back with your chosen advantage (mobility, unit count, larger airforce, whichever route you take).

Italy = Mediterranean.  Keep your fleet intact, smash Egypt and get both of your NOs.  Assist germany in southern Russia if your able.

Japan = India/DEI.  Take DEI, hold it, and push toward India while smashing China and stealing some Russian territories.

Now the allies have huge ‘swing’ power.  As in they can bring a large amount of there income against one side of the board or the other.  However, the axis have the advantage as the allies are terribly positioned.  If they go hard at one side or the other you should go after your secondary objectives once your primary is reached, focising on assisting your struggling ally.

Germany = Go after the UK.  If you are being ignored at start to hit the 60s in income compared to Russia being in the 20s, its time to start gearing up for sea lion mate.  Also, get some subs on the board and start going after the good old convoy zones.  Without a large US commitment you can control the Atlantic.  And Japan is one of the hardest nuts to crack so don’t overly worry.

Italy = Middle East.  Push toward India from the backside, also opening up a second front against Russia and stealing UK monies.

Japan = Middle East/Africa/Southern Russia.  Bloat your income by stealing some ANZAC stuff, Pearl, etc.  Then push to help out in holding Egypt, Africa, and maybe even Volgograd to get your allies some more money.  A turtling germany/italy can make a crapton of units to hold the UK/US at bay.

These are just generalized suggestions, you should speak a bit more on what the allies are doing to win the games.

[Blitchga]

@Arminius:

You really player a dozen games of AAGlobal ?

That I have,  I have been lucky to get some time off that coincided with the release and while my wife did not have time off.  :wink: That is probably the most important part. What was more is that a friend of mine had some time off as well when his wife was on a trip. Needless to say between that and the regular games we have pushed through quite a few games.

As for the strategies: I have so far found that a selection of factories has proven most effective. For Japan a Manchurian on J1 and a French-Indo on J2 (both minors) Then the Germans build a Major in Romania on G1. (yes this can hurt the Italian fleet but has proven more effective in the long run.) Italy and Germany need a sub and bomber force to keep the British at bay and bring down that seemingly impenetrable British income (at least compared to other games as a good Brit will never allow Italy to go further than Egypt and even then wrestle it away from them.) The subs are great for Africa, South America and Britain. (Yes South America, allowing the US to take it is beyond ridiculous and only a push over British player will allow the USA to talk them out of it once they have seen its glory and allowed those troops and income to go where it is needed.)

[Blitchga]

@bugoo:

These are just generalized suggestions, you should speak a bit more on what the allies are doing to win the games.

I suppose that would be a great bit of information. They are doing a number of things. First of all three units a turn hit Union of South Africa as it is a crap shoot in Africa otherwise. The British player takes his single infantry from Western India and moves to Persia and then Attacks Iraq with a couple Indian planes and the three infantry. First turn they do the Taranto raid and also take the transport with a man and artillery or tank and man to attack the Ethiopian Italian garrison before it can accomplish anything. Move your transport with tank and man from Canada to South America and take Brazil the second turn. Now move those units into the south side of the Saharan desert (out of range of Italian and German air and sub power.)

India produces as many men and artillery as they can with almost even numbers (favouring infantry slightly but not much) and this allows them to work with the Chinese to often allow for the Burma road to be open for several turns. ANZAC and India will attack on round 2 if the Japanese are not covering themselves thoroughly.

The Russian player usually pulls six far east men back and pushes four to six artillery out there instead. The six men come back to garrison China when needed or all the way to European side. The Russians always expand the air force with 1 or 2 planes (fighters or tacs) and lots of men and artillery. Your supply lines are shorter so buy those cheap men and art to provide you with an economic bonus.

USA makes a holding move in Hawaii but on land only. It is easy to make it nigh invincible with men and planes. Once the Japanese have moved elsewhere build those $15 carriers on those islands and island hop like a king. Produce a fleet of Destroyers, transports and subs. Use cruisers and destroyers in the Atlantic to safeguard those transports and allow for maximum firepower against those landings in Africa and/or Europe and Scandinavia when the time comes.

As the Allies above all else, HAVE PATIENCE. Our Allied players (myself included when it happens) play the game with time on their side because IT IS. Do not allow yourself to make brash decisions that leave men or equipment to dry.

The Battle of Britain. I should also mention that some of our allies will push out a bomber a turn with US AND Britain in order to force Germany to deal with bombed out factories or buying planes to defend and ships to defend that navy that is safe from virtually everything except bombers. If Germany does use fighters to help defend then use the RAF (which is often bolstered in the early turns) in order to keep those interceptors heads down while you bring overwhelming fighter superiority since the German Luftwaffe torn between east and west.

I could go on but I wouldn’t want even more allied victories to be popping up now! haha

I will try to elaborate on my most recent game as axis where we just might see our groups first axis win! Finally the experimenting is paying off!

[bugoo]

Couple of things then.  On G1 purchase a carrier, and send 1 sub to the SZ 112 battle with your battleship/cruiser.  This way if the UK does not buy a good number of men for london you can buy all transports on G2 and sealion.  It is not your intention to sealion, but simply to slow them down.

As Japan a major factory in Hongkong will pay off big time for you and allow you to outnumber the british.  Another dirty trick in the J1 attack is to loose a plane or two in Yunnan so that China will have a dicey battle taking it back.  Also put a good sized stack of planes in Kwangsi on J1 so that if china builds up in Szechwan you can smack 'em with pure air.  This will cripple china.  As for defending against the US, subs mate.  Build a good sized stack of subs up in SZ 6.  Using them with your large airforce will allow you to more effectively defend your ill goten gains.  The key though is not to be afraid to lose a few airplanes to put the pain on the allies.  Also, if the US is leaving you alone a J2 major factory in Kiangsi is a good play, then just pump 10 mech a turn and you WILL push back the UK and nab India.

As for the Russian front.  One fun thing to do with the major in Romania is to pump out mech inf.  Push the russians back with italian help, your goal in the south is holding Ukraine.  From there, with the Italians, you threaten a can opener that can hit Moscow or the southern factory.  Alternately, push hard in the north with huge stacks of units.  On G2 upgrade the berlin factory to a major while placing 10 inf/art in W. Germany along with 6 in berlin.  Then on each and every turn place atleast 10 in berlin, along with a smattering of mechs from behind and eventually you will push Russia back.  Let Italy just pump out the hordes of men.

Another dirty trick, planes are the best boat killers for the buck, and fighters not bombers are the better buy in this case.  Try to buy 1 fig a turn if you can.  If the allies are threatening Italy hard slap an airbase on Sicily to force them to enter the med within airplane range.

[zooooma]

@Blitchga:

First of all three units a turn hit Union of South Africa as it is a crap shoot in Africa otherwise.

Stop right there!  Germany should build a carrier and two transports G.1 UK must build in UK or they’ll lose their capitol.
See my Sea Lion thread.

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=20360.0

Sea Lion might not be the strongest move, but building this way can seriously constrain England but is still good for Germany if they decide to aim their guns at Russia instead.

As for Africa, Japan should get there (and to the UK fleet) ASAP.  Hit the Allies where it hurts - the wallet!

I will admit, so far it looks like the Allies have the advantage.  But it’s too early to tell.  There is much innovation and refinement to be done on strategies at this point.

@Blitchga:

India produces as many men and artillery as they can with almost even numbers (favouring infantry slightly but not much) and this allows them to work with the Chinese to often allow for the Burma road to be open for several turns. ANZAC and India will attack on round 2 if the Japanese are not covering themselves thoroughly.

India should fall turn three.

[zooooma]

@Arminius:

If I were you I would try some NA only for the axis and see how this works out.

There’s always the U-Boat rule from the manual.  That’s a good place to start.

The moral of the story is that the game should have had several NAs as independent optional rules.  Then we’d have many options to balance the game, or they could be ignored if certain groups don’t like them.

[Woodstock]

What’s NA?  :?

[zooooma]

NA means National Advantage - an ability or special unit that one and only one power has access to.  Examples in AAG40 are kamikazes and U-Boat Peril.

Past versions of A&A have featured many various NAs, dating back to the original Nova Games edition.  In fact, AA42 and AA50 are the only editions which don’t feature NAs in some form.

Edit - In addition to helping balance the game, NAs can facilitate a good handicap system to balance the varying skill levels.  NAs are good.

[Almano]

What is U-Boat Peril?

[zooooma]

@Almano:

What is U-Boat Peril?

An optional rule on the bottom of page 22.  German U-Boats take an extra IPC when raiding convoys.

[BJCard]

Just lost to Axis.  2nd full game (1st serious game).  Japan has too many aircraft.  Thats it.  I’m starting to think that the KGF/KIF is the only real option (which I hate to ignore the Pacific).  With Japan starting off with such a massive fleet and airforce, I cannot build a US Fleet to match or beat the Japanese stack- with 60 IPCs going Pacific!  Subs are no good- they defend at 1 and can’t hit his aircraft.

[LHoffman]

@BJCard:

Just lost as Axis.  2nd full game (1st serious game).  Japan has too many aircraft.  Thats it.  I’m starting to think that the KGF/KIF is the only real option (which I hate to ignore the Pacific).  With Japan starting off with such a massive fleet and airforce, I cannot build a US Fleet to match or beat the Japanese stack- with 60 IPCs going Pacific!  Subs are no good- they defend at 1 and can’t hit his aircraft.

This sounds like you just lost to the Axis… not that you were the Axis and lost. Why then would you complain of having too many planes with Japan?

[veto]

hi everyone,1st post long time viewer,you guys r great. just wondering what u think about afactory in romania with german trannies for a trn. 3 or4sweep into s.russia :?

[GrandMasterC]

It does seem to me that the Axis are at a disadvantage in the game. I have yet to see a win as the axis, but I don’t think it’s impossible, even if the Allies are playing well. What I am seeing is large amounts of troops being bought for Calcutta, London, and Russia. I think that the Axis require much more thought to win with. The Allies can basically play extreme defense until the US gets into it. The Axis need to be not only very aggressive, they also need to be moved and attacked with near perfectly. I’ll get it though.