US can enter war before Rusia?

[WILD BILL]

Does anyone think its strange that if there are no attacks that bring the them into war early, that the US (rd #3) can declare war a full round before Russia (rd #4)? I know it must be a game mechanic, and Germany may need till that time to get turned around. That plus the US is far away from the action, but it just seems strange to me.

[Uncle_Joe]

Yeah, it seems kinda weird, but from what I recall, Stalin wasnt planning on attacking Germany until at least 42 and possibly not even then if things didnt look favorable.

I’m pretty sure there will be NO incentives for Germany to want to attack (at least I hope so! :) )

[calvinhobbesliker]

@Uncle_Joe:

Yeah, it seems kinda weird, but from what I recall, Stalin wasnt planning on attacking Germany until at least 42 and possibly not even then if things didnt look favorable.

I’m pretty sure there will be NO incentives for Germany to want to attack (at least I hope so! :) )

Not really. They get 5 for NOT being at war with Russia. The only NO benefit is 5 for each of the russian VC’s

[Napoleon]

Yes but anyway Germany will have to attack USSR as soon as possible and USA will follow the same turn……they both declared war in 1941 and by the game mechanics both will enter the war in the same turn…if Japan want to be a good partner on that way:P

Anyway its just speculation :mrgreen:

[SilverAngelSurfer]

@WILD:

Does anyone think its strange that if there are no attacks that bring the them into war early, that the US (rd #3) can declare war a full round before Russia (rd #4)? I know it must be a game mechanic, and Germany may need till that time to get turned around. That plus the US is far away from the action, but it just seems strange to me.

Well, not a full turn before the Soviets, since the US goes last in the order (besides China and France, which don’t really count :-P) plus they aren’t allowed to declare war until the END of their 3rd turn.

So the sequence (barring any pre-emptive strikes by the Axis powers bringing them into the war early) will be like this:

Turn 3:

US3 - takes turn like normal neutral power, declares war at end of its turn, collects income, and ends turn

Turn 4:

G4 - takes turn like normal, except now it can’t ignore US ships on the ocean like it could the first 3 rounds

R4 - can immediately declare war and make attacks this turn

So since the US goes last of the major Allied powers and the Soviets go first, they basically enter the war at about the same time.  Plus, any smart Soviet player is going to formally declare war on the Japanese turn 1 (they can do this per the rules and it doesn’t cause anyone else to go to war), and just not actually attack.  That way they can move into Persia and have a shot at taking Iraq and all before the UK can take that stuff from them.  The Japanese just have to play nice with the US for the Germans’ sake.

[Andy_Dandy]

This is not strange at all, the opposite would be strange. I don’t think Russia would have joined the war before Pearl Harbor if it wasn’t attacked by the germans before that.

[SilverAngelSurfer]

And if the Japanese hadn’t attacked Pearl Harbor first, the US most likely would have joined the war still because of the Battle of the Atlantic and the issues they were having with shipping with the German U-boats (plus them helping the British), probably kinda like they ended up in WWI; which would fit with the declaring war at the end of the turn thing so the first battles they could potentially have would be with their naval units defending against German attacks on G4.

[WILD BILL]

@SAS:

So the sequence (barring any pre-emptive strikes by the Axis powers bringing them into the war early) will be like this:

Turn 3:

US3 - takes turn like normal neutral power, declares war at end of its turn, collects income, and ends turn

Turn 4:

G4 - takes turn like normal, except now it can’t ignore US ships on the ocean like it could the first 3 rounds

R4 - can immediately declare war and make attacks this turn

So since the US goes last of the major Allied powers and the Soviets go first, they basically enter the war at about the same time.  Plus, any smart Soviet player is going to formally declare war on the Japanese turn 1 (they can do this per the rules and it doesn’t cause anyone else to go to war), and just not actually attack.  That way they can move into Persia and have a shot at taking Iraq and all before the UK can take that stuff from them.  The Japanese just have to play nice with the US for the Germans’ sake.

Ok I see its a lot closer then I thought, after also rereading dj’s preview  The difference being US enters at the end of US3 (and can’t attack yet), where Russia comes in beginning of R4 guns a blazing. The preview is specific about when US comes in, where for Russia it just says turn four. I guess it is really turn four for the US as well (for attack purposes), but they want you to get that big NO bonus on US3.

[SilverAngelSurfer]

Precisely.

[450thMSAF]

yes it is weird

[JimmyHat]

No!  That’s a bad 450thMSAF!  Bad 450thMSAF, thread necromancy is bad!  Don’t dig up any more buried threads, all you’re doing is putting holes in the yard and making the parents very angry.  :mrgreen:

[warwinner]

@SAS:

@WILD:

Does anyone think its strange that if there are no attacks that bring the them into war early, that the US (rd #3) can declare war a full round before Russia (rd #4)? I know it must be a game mechanic, and Germany may need till that time to get turned around. That plus the US is far away from the action, but it just seems strange to me.

Well, not a full turn before the Soviets, since the US goes last in the order (besides China and France, which don’t really count :-P) plus they aren’t allowed to declare war until the END of their 3rd turn.

So the sequence (barring any pre-emptive strikes by the Axis powers bringing them into the war early) will be like this:

Turn 3:

US3 - takes turn like normal neutral power, declares war at end of its turn, collects income, and ends turn

Turn 4:

G4 - takes turn like normal, except now it can’t ignore US ships on the ocean like it could the first 3 rounds

R4 - can immediately declare war and make attacks this turn

So since the US goes last of the major Allied powers and the Soviets go first, they basically enter the war at about the same time.  Plus, any smart Soviet player is going to formally declare war on the Japanese turn 1 (they can do this per the rules and it doesn’t cause anyone else to go to war), and just not actually attack.  That way they can move into Persia and have a shot at taking Iraq and all before the UK can take that stuff from them.  The Japanese just have to play nice with the US for the Germans’ sake.

Actually, being at war with Japan means that Russia is only at war on the Pacific board. Since they are still neutral on the Europe board, they would not be able to annex any neutrals in the Middle East.

[450thMSAF]

sometimes there are things worth digging

[SilverAngelSurfer]

@warwinner:

@SAS:

@WILD:

Does anyone think its strange that if there are no attacks that bring the them into war early, that the US (rd #3) can declare war a full round before Russia (rd #4)? I know it must be a game mechanic, and Germany may need till that time to get turned around. That plus the US is far away from the action, but it just seems strange to me.

Well, not a full turn before the Soviets, since the US goes last in the order (besides China and France, which don’t really count :-P) plus they aren’t allowed to declare war until the END of their 3rd turn.

So the sequence (barring any pre-emptive strikes by the Axis powers bringing them into the war early) will be like this:

Turn 3:

US3 - takes turn like normal neutral power, declares war at end of its turn, collects income, and ends turn

Turn 4:

G4 - takes turn like normal, except now it can’t ignore US ships on the ocean like it could the first 3 rounds

R4 - can immediately declare war and make attacks this turn

So since the US goes last of the major Allied powers and the Soviets go first, they basically enter the war at about the same time.  Plus, any smart Soviet player is going to formally declare war on the Japanese turn 1 (they can do this per the rules and it doesn’t cause anyone else to go to war), and just not actually attack.  That way they can move into Persia and have a shot at taking Iraq and all before the UK can take that stuff from them.  The Japanese just have to play nice with the US for the Germans’ sake.

Actually, being at war with Japan means that Russia is only at war on the Pacific board. Since they are still neutral on the Europe board, they would not be able to annex any neutrals in the Middle East.

Is this correct?

[shadowguidex]

Yes, correct.  Being at war with Japan doesn’t allow Russia to interact with neutrals on the Europe maps.

[Alsch91]

Guys, look at the post dates.
This thread is so old that they were talking about OoB rules.  They are correct in everything they said, but it’s not right for A+2.
Also,
@450thMSAF:

sometimes there are things worth digging

this is probably not one of those things.  :lol:

[SilverAngelSurfer]

@shadowguidex:

Yes, correct.  Being at war with Japan doesn’t allow Russia to interact with neutrals on the Europe maps.

I can’t find this in the rulebook, where is the ruling on this?

[SilverAngelSurfer]

@SAS:

@shadowguidex:

Yes, correct.  Being at war with Japan doesn’t allow Russia to interact with neutrals on the Europe maps.

I can’t find this in the rulebook, where is the ruling on this?

Anyone?  Krieg?

[knp7765]

I’m not sure about the OOB rulebook, but I use the Alpha+2 rules.  Under the section “Rule Changes that Now are Observed.”, #3 states "If the Soviet Union is at war with Axis powers on only one map, it is still under the restrictions of being a neutral power on the other map.  In other words, war with Japan lifts those restrictions from the USSR on the Pacific map only, and war with Germany and/or Italy lifts those restriction on the Europe map only.

[Xandax]

@SAS:

@shadowguidex:

Yes, correct.  Being at war with Japan doesn’t allow Russia to interact with neutrals on the Europe maps.

I can’t find this in the rulebook, where is the ruling on this?

It’s something Krieg have clarified on the forum. Possible in the FAQ thread.