Italy a bad design

[Guest]

@moralecheck:

@AA_fourlife:

all 18 eastern russia goes to manchuria, then build a complex, then……

Doesn’t Manchuria get return to China?  I suppose Korea would work though.

oops, yes that is what i meant.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@AA_fourlife:

@moralecheck:

@AA_fourlife:

all 18 eastern russia goes to manchuria, then build a complex, then……

Doesn’t Manchuria get return to China?  I suppose Korea would work though.

oops, yes that is what i meant.

What complex? It wastes 30 ipcs and Japan can easily recapture Korea and get a free factory. I did a test game where R1 moved all 18 inf to Amur, and Japan killed them all, losing 7 inf

[Tavenier]

I, as Japan, would be delighted with a lovely present of all Russian Eastern inf on one space next to a sea zone.

[miamibeach]

The UK Gibraltar fleet attacking the Italians in SZ95 is a mistake.  It can only work out ok for the Allies if the German player is inexperienced.  Please, use your imagination before you decide you are a perfect player and cant figure this one out.

The global game is not flawed or unbalanced as far as I can tell so far.  The global game seems to have been play tested very well.

Yes, AAP40 was unblanced as a stand alone game, but our group down here knew that the global game would include USSR and what ever assets they get.  USSR putting its 18 INF on the border with Manchuria is a huge mistake…they will end up getting wiped out.  The best USSR can do is keep it back and off the coast as a threat/block.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@miamibeach:

The UK Gibraltar fleet attacking the Italians in SZ95 is a mistake.  It can only work out ok for the Allies if the German player is inexperienced.  Please, use your imagination before you decide you are a perfect player and cant figure this one out.

The global game is not flawed or unbalanced as far as I can tell so far.  The global game seems to have been play tested very well.

Yes, AAP40 was unblanced as a stand alone game, but our group down here knew that the global game would include USSR and what ever assets they get.  USSR putting its 18 INF on the border with Manchuria is a huge mistake…they will end up getting wiped out.  The best USSR can do is keep it back and off the coast as a threat/block.

Why is it a mistake? What was a mistake was my French Fleet abandoning it

[Guest]

@Tavenier:

I, as Japan, would be delighted with a lovely present of all Russian Eastern inf on one space next to a sea zone.

all you’d have to try next is to move all USSR air into that space too do defend them. if USA is at war then UK and USA could move air in to defend korea too.

[Chompers2]

Japan can kill the 18 Russian Inf with ease any time it wants if they don’t keep one space away.  I wish the Russian player would mass them all on the border turn one, as japan  I can then blast them and use the rest of my plane movement to heads towards India.  It would clear one avenue away with little loss.

When I played Russia I danced with Japan making sure that if they did attack me it would be with only planes so that I would at least kill expensive troops.  The Japan player never took the bait and we danced all the way back to me running my 18 Inf into Moscow around turn 9 or so to get ready for the fact that Japan was about to finally be in range.  This left Moscow with about 100 Inf plus tanks, art, planes, allied planes etc… So even though Japan was finally in range they needed to do a massive troop build to be able to capture the city.  On the other side of the board America had two major Ind complexs in Europe and US and Britan were landing every turn.  Germany had like 50 Inf and 30 tanks inside it so we just decided to call it a draw but we both felt if we had played it out that US would have gotten Germany before Japan would have gotten Russia.  The closest Major Ind complex Japan can get to Moscow is India.  The allies have many options for getting major ind complexs in europe.

[BasileII]

If you attack the sz95 italian fleet, you should destroy it while keeping your planes. But the combined french-UK fleet in sz93 will then die to the germna aircrafts fury. Depending on how much you want to throw at it, Germany should lose between 3 and 4 planes, which is a lot.

But they have money to buy others. And when this UK fleet is destroyed, the Italians have at least 2 turns (up to UK3-4) to build a new navy. This navy doesn’t need to be that powerful. How could the UK manages to get more than 2-3 planes (and I speak of planes taken from India) in the Med? And the Med is not 3 sz wide as it was before, so the Italian fleet could still hide from them and ferry troops in Africa while not approching Egypt.

[Chompers2]

On turn on GB can fly the planes from india to a space in Africa. Have everything else fall back to Egypt.  Turn two the planes land in Egypt and now Egypt is next to impossible for the Italians to take alone as far as I can see.  I tried the best I could and died to man.

[miamibeach]

@calvinhobbesliker:

@miamibeach:

The UK Gibraltar fleet attacking the Italians in SZ95 is a mistake.  It can only work out ok for the Allies if the German player is inexperienced.  Please, use your imagination before you decide you are a perfect player and cant figure this one out.

The global game is not flawed or unbalanced as far as I can tell so far.  The global game seems to have been play tested very well.

Yes, AAP40 was unblanced as a stand alone game, but our group down here knew that the global game would include USSR and what ever assets they get.  USSR putting its 18 INF on the border with Manchuria is a huge mistake…they will end up getting wiped out.  The best USSR can do is keep it back and off the coast as a threat/block.

Why is it a mistake? What was a mistake was my French Fleet abandoning it

Too bad your French fleet abondoned it, because now you see an excuse.  If the French fleet would not have abondoned it, then you would now seen why its a faulty strategy.  The Germans should be able to sink everything, and…if they choose not to or cant, and there is anything left over, the Italians can mop up with their remaining CA, DD, 2FTR’s.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@miamibeach:

@calvinhobbesliker:

@miamibeach:

The UK Gibraltar fleet attacking the Italians in SZ95 is a mistake.  It can only work out ok for the Allies if the German player is inexperienced.  Please, use your imagination before you decide you are a perfect player and cant figure this one out.

The global game is not flawed or unbalanced as far as I can tell so far.  The global game seems to have been play tested very well.

Yes, AAP40 was unblanced as a stand alone game, but our group down here knew that the global game would include USSR and what ever assets they get.  USSR putting its 18 INF on the border with Manchuria is a huge mistake…they will end up getting wiped out.  The best USSR can do is keep it back and off the coast as a threat/block.

Why is it a mistake? What was a mistake was my French Fleet abandoning it

Too bad your French fleet abondoned it, because now you see an excuse.  If the French fleet would not have abondoned it, then you would now seen why its a faulty strategy.  The Germans should be able to sink everything, and…if they choose not to or cant, and there is anything left over, the Italians can mop up with their remaining CA, DD, 2FTR’s.

If that’s the case, they’ll die crippling the Italian fleet and make Germany lose planes instead of making Germany lose a few SS and planes by moving it arund the UK

[miamibeach]

@Chompers#2:

On turn on GB can fly the planes from india to a space in Africa. Have everything else fall back to Egypt.  Turn two the planes land in Egypt and now Egypt is next to impossible for the Italians to take alone as far as I can see.  I tried the best I could and died to man.

As Japan I would love the UK to do this!  Say good bye to India!  You can keep Egypt(temporarily) and I’ll keep India and upgrade its factory!

[BasileII]

You NEED an IC in Egypt for the UK to survive in Africa. At the beginning, your army in North Africa (Alexandria and Egypt) is 3 inf, 2 art, 1 tank, 1 fighter (but this fighter will soon attack the Italian fleet). Even if you assemble this army in Egypt and let the ANZAC inf in Alexandria to block, your army is still inferior to the 4 inf, 2 mech, 1 art 1 tank the Italians can advance in Alexandria. Not a lot, but still, you should be wiped out on I2, even without reinforcement or Ethiopian troops.

So Egypt needs reinforcement. If you can afford 1-2 planes from India, it’s very good (if Japan doesn’t DOW on turn 1, you have time to do it). But Is still think that you need an IC, and you need to build more than just inf in this IC.

Italy is not that weak. As they are the only power situated in the Med, they have a considerable logistic advantage. In the Channel or in the Pacific, 2 cruisers and 1 destroyer are almost sitting ducks. In the Med, they are a powerful fleet.

[Daedelus]

@Chompers#2:

Japan can kill the 18 Russian Inf with ease any time it wants if they don’t keep one space away.  I wish the Russian player would mass them all on the border turn one, as japan  I can then blast them and use the rest of my plane movement to heads towards India.  It would clear one avenue away with little loss.

When I played Russia I danced with Japan making sure that if they did attack me it would be with only planes so that I would at least kill expensive troops.  The Japan player never took the bait and we danced all the way back to me running my 18 Inf into Moscow around turn 9 or so to get ready for the fact that Japan was about to finally be in range.  This left Moscow with about 100 Inf plus tanks, art, planes, allied planes etc… So even though Japan was finally in range they needed to do a massive troop build to be able to capture the city.  On the other side of the board America had two major Ind complexs in Europe and US and Britan were landing every turn.  Germany had like 50 Inf and 30 tanks inside it so we just decided to call it a draw but we both felt if we had played it out that US would have gotten Germany before Japan would have gotten Russia.  The closest Major Ind complex Japan can get to Moscow is India.  The allies have many options for getting major ind complexs in europe.

This seems like a decent strategy.  Draw Japan into Russia away from where they can do real damage.  Then if they don’t press hard enough, counter attack.

[Chompers2]

Well as far as I can tell Japan can take India regardless of what GB does if it wants to.  If Japan goes with force into India and does the J1 attack those planes will do next to nothing in the Pacific while in Egypt the secure the terriority.  Besides if I see that Japan is going to attack India on the cheep and does not do the J1 attack I can always fly the planes back in time for the final fight in India.

[miamibeach]

@calvinhobbesliker:

@miamibeach:

@calvinhobbesliker:

@miamibeach:

The UK Gibraltar fleet attacking the Italians in SZ95 is a mistake.  It can only work out ok for the Allies if the German player is inexperienced.  Please, use your imagination before you decide you are a perfect player and cant figure this one out.

The global game is not flawed or unbalanced as far as I can tell so far.  The global game seems to have been play tested very well.

Yes, AAP40 was unblanced as a stand alone game, but our group down here knew that the global game would include USSR and what ever assets they get.  USSR putting its 18 INF on the border with Manchuria is a huge mistake…they will end up getting wiped out.  The best USSR can do is keep it back and off the coast as a threat/block.

Why is it a mistake? What was a mistake was my French Fleet abandoning it

Too bad your French fleet abondoned it, because now you see an excuse.  If the French fleet would not have abondoned it, then you would now seen why its a faulty strategy.  The Germans should be able to sink everything, and…if they choose not to or cant, and there is anything left over, the Italians can mop up with their remaining CA, DD, 2FTR’s.

If that’s the case, they’ll die crippling the Italian fleet and make Germany lose planes instead of making Germany lose a few SS and planes by moving it arund the UK

The Italian fleet is still left with something, and even if it does’nt…they can start fresh with SUBS and a CV.  I like Italy getting its 5 IPC NO.  Germany has plenty of cash…but if the initial battle against the French/UK does not go well for some reason, the Germans can retreat and leave the rest for the Italians to take out.  It does’nt have to cost the Germans everything.

[Chompers2]

There is no need to use a blocker imho but is better for GB to mass all in Egypt then when the fighers land the math is heavily in the favor of GB.  We have played 4 games so far and each time Italy has lost in Africa with out GB spending to save it aside from bring in planes from the pacific.

[miamibeach]

@Chompers#2:

Well as far as I can tell Japan can take India regardless of what GB does if it wants to.  If Japan goes with force into India and does the J1 attack those planes will do next to nothing in the Pacific while in Egypt the secure the terriority.  Besides if I see that Japan is going to attack India on the cheep and does not do the J1 attack I can always fly the planes back in time for the final fight in India.

J1 attack vs UK/ANZAC is not a smart thing to do, and depends more on what is happening in Europe and if the Germans are ready with their strategy there.  If the UK sends the 4 FTR’s to Egypt, that might pause the Italians.  The longer the UK keeps their FTR’s there, the easier it will be for Japan…at some point UK has to send its FTR’s back to India, or, if not, eventually Japan will be in Africa anyway.

[miamibeach]

@Chompers#2:

There is no need to use a blocker imho but is better for GB to mass all in Egypt then when the fighers land the math is heavily in the favor of GB.  We have played 4 games so far and each time Italy has lost in Africa with out GB spending to save it aside from bring in planes from the pacific.

I have to admit I have not played against this UK tactic, but I have to ask…what is Japan doing in those games?  As the Axis, I would rather have India than Egypt.  After Egypt I see the Japs making a move on Africa…and it does’nt have to be Egypt, it can be Madagascar/S. Africa.

[BasileII]

On turn on GB can fly the planes from india to a space in Africa. Have everything else fall back to Egypt.  Turn two the planes land in Egypt and now Egypt is next to impossible for the Italians to take alone as far as I can see.  I tried the best I could and died to man.

If you fly all your planes from India, who will protect India? Who will threaten the japanese fleet and force it to protect its transport while taking DEI? Who will help your footmen while they heroically try to defend Burma road?

Let’s say you bring in 2 planes (as Japan will probably not attack on turn 1, you should have time and money to replace 2 planes). 1 fighter and 1 tac. You have them in Kenya on UK1, in Egypt on UK2. If these are all your reinforcements, you may well lose if the Ethiopian army is free to attack you, or if Italy brings in planes, or if Italians troops come by transport .

Let’s calculate it:
6 inf, 2 mech, 1 art, 1 tank, 1 fighter (attacked France turn 1, then went to Libya).
And certainly 2 inf from Ethiopia (unless you,ve attacked them on UK1, but then your defense would be weaker too).
Or 2 inf from southern Italy with transport, with 1 CA bombarding (I didn’t even count the second transport I would build with Italy on turn 1 knowng that the frenc-Uk fleet would sink on G2 under Luftwaffe assault).

So they have 8 inf, 2 mech, 1 art, 1 tank 1 fighter to attack. A power of 19 on 13 units.
You have 4 inf (1 from Sudan), 1 art, 1 tank, 1 fighter, 1 tac. A power of 20 on 8 units.
Every time Italy touches you, you lose 2 in defense, while he loses 1.

You are sure to lose.

Would you have 3 more infantry on the position (with an IC), I still think you would lose.