Italy a bad design

[calvinhobbesliker]

@Chompers#2:

In two games we played GB lost it’s starting alantic fleet pretty much completely.  It does really slow GB down a bit.  But then in one game the British navy destroyed the subs and planes attacking and then the defenders in France killed ten germans because less planes were used in the attack as they were used on the british navy.  This left Britan with 2 battleships to start with and a cruiser which they could join with the carrier off Gilbartar turn one and then use there turn one build get some transports and maybe a ship or two and then Germany will never be able to sink the fleet.  Because on top of the British ships living turn one the germans lost many planes in the attack.

And then in another games one of the battleships lived.  It may have been bad dice luck but I don’t believe it is a sure bet that GB will lose its navy turn one.  The German player needs some luck because the subs are only hitting on a 2 so the planes they use better hit.  If the British player rolls well turn one can go really bad for the germans in the Alantic.

True. I guess that probability of winning all of those battles is less than 50%

[Starwolf]

I am new to the boards, been watching for a long time.  I just have to say something here……

In my opinion, Italy IS going to need Germanys help, no way around that.

If the Germans on turn one non-combat phase land their planes right if the Brits go after the Italian fleet, they will lose theirs on Germanys next turn.  This will still leave some Italian ships left and no Brits, Italy still has a great chance.

I think the great thing about this game, is there are so many options, some may prove to be better that others, but that doesnt break a game, it just makes it harder.

By the way, thanks for all the great ideas and info from past posts!

[Chompers2]

I don’t think the game is broken and unbalanced like 1940 Pacific.  My experience so far is that as beginners playing the game the first couple of times it is easier to play the allies.  I think the J1 attack is still best for the Axis in this because Japan has to get moving to Moscow ASAP.  The benefits seem to outweigh the negatives.

For axis to do a sea lion against a competent GB player is low odds at best I think plus by the time you could pull it off US could liberate UK.  The benefits don’t seem to out weigh the negatives.  For Germany to do this they would be vurnable to Russia and US by spending so many points on fleet and transports.

Invading Russia with Germany is frustrating because when we did it we had to turn around to fend off he Brits and Americans before we could get further than Leningrad.  The russians territories on the front line are worth very little points.

It seems to me so far that most effective Germany is to start preparing for allied landing with massive troop builds and maybe try and capture one Russian city.  Then have Germany just defend and wait for the Japan player to take over the pacific and march towards Moscow.  Not sure who wins that race.  I guess  I would enjoy playing a more offensive oriented Germany.  Yet I don’t won’t to discourage anyone because I am fairly new to axis and allies and have much to learn.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@Chompers#2:

I don’t think the game is broken and unbalanced like 1940 Pacific.  My experience so far is that as beginners playing the game the first couple of times it is easier to play the allies.  I think the J1 attack is still best for the Axis in this because Japan has to get moving to Moscow ASAP.  The benefits seem to outweigh the negatives.

For axis to do a sea lion against a competent GB player is low odds at best I think plus by the time you could pull it off US could liberate UK.  The benefits don’t seem to out weigh the negatives.  For Germany to do this they would be vurnable to Russia and US by spending so many points on fleet and transports.

Invading Russia with Germany is frustrating because when we did it we had to turn around to fend off he Brits and Americans before we could get further than Leningrad.  The russians territories on the front line are worth very little points.

It seems to me so far that most effective Germany is to start preparing for allied landing with massive troop builds and maybe try and capture one Russian city.  Then have Germany just defend and wait for the Japan player to take over the pacific and march towards Moscow.  Not sure who wins that race.  I guess  I would enjoy playing a more offensive oriented Germany.  Yet I don’t won’t to discourage anyone because I am fairly new to axis and allies and have much to learn.

Moscow is 9 turns from Manchuria. Russia has plenty of time to build inf wall.

[Guest]

all 18 eastern russia goes to manchuria, then build a complex, then……

[moralecheck]

@AA_fourlife:

all 18 eastern russia goes to manchuria, then build a complex, then……

Doesn’t Manchuria get return to China?  I suppose Korea would work though.

[Guest]

@moralecheck:

@AA_fourlife:

all 18 eastern russia goes to manchuria, then build a complex, then……

Doesn’t Manchuria get return to China?  I suppose Korea would work though.

oops, yes that is what i meant.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@AA_fourlife:

@moralecheck:

@AA_fourlife:

all 18 eastern russia goes to manchuria, then build a complex, then……

Doesn’t Manchuria get return to China?  I suppose Korea would work though.

oops, yes that is what i meant.

What complex? It wastes 30 ipcs and Japan can easily recapture Korea and get a free factory. I did a test game where R1 moved all 18 inf to Amur, and Japan killed them all, losing 7 inf

[Tavenier]

I, as Japan, would be delighted with a lovely present of all Russian Eastern inf on one space next to a sea zone.

[miamibeach]

The UK Gibraltar fleet attacking the Italians in SZ95 is a mistake.  It can only work out ok for the Allies if the German player is inexperienced.  Please, use your imagination before you decide you are a perfect player and cant figure this one out.

The global game is not flawed or unbalanced as far as I can tell so far.  The global game seems to have been play tested very well.

Yes, AAP40 was unblanced as a stand alone game, but our group down here knew that the global game would include USSR and what ever assets they get.  USSR putting its 18 INF on the border with Manchuria is a huge mistake…they will end up getting wiped out.  The best USSR can do is keep it back and off the coast as a threat/block.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@miamibeach:

The UK Gibraltar fleet attacking the Italians in SZ95 is a mistake.  It can only work out ok for the Allies if the German player is inexperienced.  Please, use your imagination before you decide you are a perfect player and cant figure this one out.

The global game is not flawed or unbalanced as far as I can tell so far.  The global game seems to have been play tested very well.

Yes, AAP40 was unblanced as a stand alone game, but our group down here knew that the global game would include USSR and what ever assets they get.  USSR putting its 18 INF on the border with Manchuria is a huge mistake…they will end up getting wiped out.  The best USSR can do is keep it back and off the coast as a threat/block.

Why is it a mistake? What was a mistake was my French Fleet abandoning it

[Guest]

@Tavenier:

I, as Japan, would be delighted with a lovely present of all Russian Eastern inf on one space next to a sea zone.

all you’d have to try next is to move all USSR air into that space too do defend them. if USA is at war then UK and USA could move air in to defend korea too.

[Chompers2]

Japan can kill the 18 Russian Inf with ease any time it wants if they don’t keep one space away.  I wish the Russian player would mass them all on the border turn one, as japan  I can then blast them and use the rest of my plane movement to heads towards India.  It would clear one avenue away with little loss.

When I played Russia I danced with Japan making sure that if they did attack me it would be with only planes so that I would at least kill expensive troops.  The Japan player never took the bait and we danced all the way back to me running my 18 Inf into Moscow around turn 9 or so to get ready for the fact that Japan was about to finally be in range.  This left Moscow with about 100 Inf plus tanks, art, planes, allied planes etc… So even though Japan was finally in range they needed to do a massive troop build to be able to capture the city.  On the other side of the board America had two major Ind complexs in Europe and US and Britan were landing every turn.  Germany had like 50 Inf and 30 tanks inside it so we just decided to call it a draw but we both felt if we had played it out that US would have gotten Germany before Japan would have gotten Russia.  The closest Major Ind complex Japan can get to Moscow is India.  The allies have many options for getting major ind complexs in europe.

[BasileII]

If you attack the sz95 italian fleet, you should destroy it while keeping your planes. But the combined french-UK fleet in sz93 will then die to the germna aircrafts fury. Depending on how much you want to throw at it, Germany should lose between 3 and 4 planes, which is a lot.

But they have money to buy others. And when this UK fleet is destroyed, the Italians have at least 2 turns (up to UK3-4) to build a new navy. This navy doesn’t need to be that powerful. How could the UK manages to get more than 2-3 planes (and I speak of planes taken from India) in the Med? And the Med is not 3 sz wide as it was before, so the Italian fleet could still hide from them and ferry troops in Africa while not approching Egypt.

[Chompers2]

On turn on GB can fly the planes from india to a space in Africa. Have everything else fall back to Egypt.  Turn two the planes land in Egypt and now Egypt is next to impossible for the Italians to take alone as far as I can see.  I tried the best I could and died to man.

[miamibeach]

@calvinhobbesliker:

@miamibeach:

The UK Gibraltar fleet attacking the Italians in SZ95 is a mistake.  It can only work out ok for the Allies if the German player is inexperienced.  Please, use your imagination before you decide you are a perfect player and cant figure this one out.

The global game is not flawed or unbalanced as far as I can tell so far.  The global game seems to have been play tested very well.

Yes, AAP40 was unblanced as a stand alone game, but our group down here knew that the global game would include USSR and what ever assets they get.  USSR putting its 18 INF on the border with Manchuria is a huge mistake…they will end up getting wiped out.  The best USSR can do is keep it back and off the coast as a threat/block.

Why is it a mistake? What was a mistake was my French Fleet abandoning it

Too bad your French fleet abondoned it, because now you see an excuse.  If the French fleet would not have abondoned it, then you would now seen why its a faulty strategy.  The Germans should be able to sink everything, and…if they choose not to or cant, and there is anything left over, the Italians can mop up with their remaining CA, DD, 2FTR’s.

[calvinhobbesliker]

@miamibeach:

@calvinhobbesliker:

@miamibeach:

The UK Gibraltar fleet attacking the Italians in SZ95 is a mistake.  It can only work out ok for the Allies if the German player is inexperienced.  Please, use your imagination before you decide you are a perfect player and cant figure this one out.

The global game is not flawed or unbalanced as far as I can tell so far.  The global game seems to have been play tested very well.

Yes, AAP40 was unblanced as a stand alone game, but our group down here knew that the global game would include USSR and what ever assets they get.  USSR putting its 18 INF on the border with Manchuria is a huge mistake…they will end up getting wiped out.  The best USSR can do is keep it back and off the coast as a threat/block.

Why is it a mistake? What was a mistake was my French Fleet abandoning it

Too bad your French fleet abondoned it, because now you see an excuse.  If the French fleet would not have abondoned it, then you would now seen why its a faulty strategy.  The Germans should be able to sink everything, and…if they choose not to or cant, and there is anything left over, the Italians can mop up with their remaining CA, DD, 2FTR’s.

If that’s the case, they’ll die crippling the Italian fleet and make Germany lose planes instead of making Germany lose a few SS and planes by moving it arund the UK

[miamibeach]

@Chompers#2:

On turn on GB can fly the planes from india to a space in Africa. Have everything else fall back to Egypt.  Turn two the planes land in Egypt and now Egypt is next to impossible for the Italians to take alone as far as I can see.  I tried the best I could and died to man.

As Japan I would love the UK to do this!  Say good bye to India!  You can keep Egypt(temporarily) and I’ll keep India and upgrade its factory!

[BasileII]

You NEED an IC in Egypt for the UK to survive in Africa. At the beginning, your army in North Africa (Alexandria and Egypt) is 3 inf, 2 art, 1 tank, 1 fighter (but this fighter will soon attack the Italian fleet). Even if you assemble this army in Egypt and let the ANZAC inf in Alexandria to block, your army is still inferior to the 4 inf, 2 mech, 1 art 1 tank the Italians can advance in Alexandria. Not a lot, but still, you should be wiped out on I2, even without reinforcement or Ethiopian troops.

So Egypt needs reinforcement. If you can afford 1-2 planes from India, it’s very good (if Japan doesn’t DOW on turn 1, you have time to do it). But Is still think that you need an IC, and you need to build more than just inf in this IC.

Italy is not that weak. As they are the only power situated in the Med, they have a considerable logistic advantage. In the Channel or in the Pacific, 2 cruisers and 1 destroyer are almost sitting ducks. In the Med, they are a powerful fleet.

[Daedelus]

@Chompers#2:

Japan can kill the 18 Russian Inf with ease any time it wants if they don’t keep one space away.  I wish the Russian player would mass them all on the border turn one, as japan  I can then blast them and use the rest of my plane movement to heads towards India.  It would clear one avenue away with little loss.

When I played Russia I danced with Japan making sure that if they did attack me it would be with only planes so that I would at least kill expensive troops.  The Japan player never took the bait and we danced all the way back to me running my 18 Inf into Moscow around turn 9 or so to get ready for the fact that Japan was about to finally be in range.  This left Moscow with about 100 Inf plus tanks, art, planes, allied planes etc… So even though Japan was finally in range they needed to do a massive troop build to be able to capture the city.  On the other side of the board America had two major Ind complexs in Europe and US and Britan were landing every turn.  Germany had like 50 Inf and 30 tanks inside it so we just decided to call it a draw but we both felt if we had played it out that US would have gotten Germany before Japan would have gotten Russia.  The closest Major Ind complex Japan can get to Moscow is India.  The allies have many options for getting major ind complexs in europe.

This seems like a decent strategy.  Draw Japan into Russia away from where they can do real damage.  Then if they don’t press hard enough, counter attack.