Canada House Rule

[hewhoisnickel]

Would it be feasible to make Canada it’s own nation as a house rule, for Europe and/or Global? I’m thinking of doing this, as I’m from Canada and many of my friends, as well as I, are very interested in playing as the Great White North. What changes will need to be made to make it both possible and fun to play as Canada, while keeping the game balanced?

I know that none of you can answer this indefinitely, since the game isn’t out yet and none of you have playtested it, but I’m still hoping for a general idea.

[dellsharpie]

This has been discussed at GREAT length is several previously existing threads.
The general consensus is that it would weaken the European UK significantly as Canada is really its only source of stable income.

However, do to the likelihood of a successful Sea Lion attack on UK shores, it may not be a bad idea to implement Canada as a seperate power this makes taking the UK less valuable to the axis and also keeps some of the IPC alive on the allies side.

But in all likelihood Canada as a seperate power leaves the UK with a mere 22 IPCs or so and they will lose territory in Africa and probably get convoy raided by the germans, so they might reliable have 15 IPCs a turn, which isnt really enough to defend themselves or take national objectives.

IF you wanted it to work, perhaps a good suggestion would be to give the UK a starting bid of about 20 IPC.  This gives the UK a stronger starting position with which to build a defense around.  This leaves Canada free to use its IPCs in whatever fashion, preferrably to assist the UK.

[lnmajor]

The main issue i see with this is that anything Canada would do, combat or spending IPCs would be to directly support British anyway.its only creating another step in the  turn order and slowing the game down. i thought at first that it was great to have France separate from the British forces, but after Germany crushes France and takes their Capital, it isnt worth the time to try to play France as a seperate entity.
if you want to play Canada so you can take over a pacific island or something just paint a bunch of pieces a different color, separate Canacain IPC income from British, insert Canada into the turn order after Britian, and go nuts.

[lnmajor]

had an idea :-o
what about a Canadian cammando unit that really kicks butt and does spicialized missions?

[hewhoisnickel]

@dellsharpie:

This has been discussed at GREAT length is several previously existing threads.
The general consensus is that it would weaken the European UK significantly as Canada is really its only source of stable income.

However, do to the likelihood of a successful Sea Lion attack on UK shores, it may not be a bad idea to implement Canada as a seperate power this makes taking the UK less valuable to the axis and also keeps some of the IPC alive on the allies side.

But in all likelihood Canada as a seperate power leaves the UK with a mere 22 IPCs or so and they will lose territory in Africa and probably get convoy raided by the germans, so they might reliable have 15 IPCs a turn, which isnt really enough to defend themselves or take national objectives.

IF you wanted it to work, perhaps a good suggestion would be to give the UK a starting bid of about 20 IPC.  This gives the UK a stronger starting position with which to build a defense around.  This leaves Canada free to use its IPCs in whatever fashion, preferrably to assist the UK.

A 20 IPC bid for the UK, maybe a couple fighters, and an increased income for Canada (perhaps 10 IPCs per turn) would put the UK at a better starting position and allow Canada to be more powerful and fun to play as.

@lnmajor:

The main issue i see with this is that anything Canada would do, combat or spending IPCs would be to directly support British anyway.its only creating another step in the  turn order and slowing the game down. i thought at first that it was great to have France separate from the British forces, but after Germany crushes France and takes their Capital, it isnt worth the time to try to play France as a seperate entity.
if you want to play Canada so you can take over a pacific island or something just paint a bunch of pieces a different color, separate Canacain IPC income from British, insert Canada into the turn order after Britian, and go nuts.

If income was increased by one for Canada in, let’s say, Ontario, Quebec and British Columbia, a Minor IC was placed in BC, and more initial units were placed for Canada, I think they’d be pretty fun to play as. To balance, of course, the Axis could get a few more units.

@lnmajor:

had an idea :-o
what about a Canadian cammando unit that really kicks butt and does spicialized missions?

Haha, I wish.  :-P

[Dylan the Canadian]

Well everyone thinks that this will cripple the UK’s income.

I think it should be though!

[i rock]

If income was increased by one for Canada in, let’s say, Ontario, Quebec and  British Columbia

yes that would be realistic.

[FieldMarshalGames]

Canada has been given great respect in the 1940 games; being given it’s own Roundel showing its special position in the British Empire at the time (Like ANZAC).

I have to Agree with others that making Canada a SEPARATE power would weaken the UK in the European theater…  it would also be completely un-historical!  Although the Dominion of Canada (as it was known at the time) made a HUGE effort and contribution to the Allied effort, they were completely under the command of the JOINT IMPERIAL GENERAL STAFF located in London.  It was not until 1944/45 as the Allies moved into the low countries and Western Germany that the Canadian Army was all together under their won command (Under the SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER)

Before 1944 and the great Canadian contribution was spread all over the World (Hong Kong / Australia / North Africa / Italy / North Atlantic) and was under the command and in conjunction with Great Britain.

I propose instead…  use alternate colour(possibly from another AAA game) British pcs for All Canadian units and enjoy tracking their progress and use throughout the war…  but keeping them under the command of the British Empire…  IMHO

[hewhoisnickel]

I am in no way trying to convince other people to do this, in fact, this House Rule is entirely for my selfish use, but anyone else who wants to use it, can. I’m still developing, and it won’t be ready until I can playtest it. Very end of August is probably the soonest.

[FieldMarshalGames]

LETS GET 'EM CANADA!

[M K P]

Would need a few Canadian Markers and pieces… Also, I think the game already has plenty of minor Allied powers (China, ANZAC, France), no offense to Canadians (I have visited before, lovely place), but I think unless major modifications were made to balance it out, it might do more harm then good.

[i rock]

himm well at least fix the facct the canadas poorer the anzac when in ww2 they had the same economy.

[Bob_A_Mickelson]

@hewhoisnickel:

I am in no way trying to convince other people to do this, in fact, this House Rule is entirely for my selfish use, but anyone else who wants to use it, can. I’m still developing, and it won’t be ready until I can playtest it. Very end of August is probably the soonest.

I would love to see Canada as a separate power for purely selfish reasons too. I believe the key to having a playable Canada is giving it an easy National Objective. Canada is currently worth 7 IPCs. A 5 IPC NO would raise its IPCs to 12. This is enough money for Canada to purchase any unit it wants except an aircraft carrier or battleship.

I plan on experimenting with the game once it arrives. Hopefully i can get a simple way for Canada to be added.

Currently my thoughts on implementing Canada as an independent power would include the following changes.

1. Canada takes its turn between UK and ANZAC.
2. Canada gets these National Objectives:
       a) "Gain 5 IPCs if no axis ships are present  in sea zones 1, 106, 116, 120, & 121.
       b) “Gain 3 IPCs if at least one Canadian unit is present in one of the following territories: France, Southern France, or Normandy/Bordeaux.”
3. Make the following setup changes:
       a) All units located within territories with Canadian roundels and sea zone 106 become Canadian.
       b) Add 1 fighter and 1 strategic bomber in Ontario.
       c) Add 1 infantry to British Columbia.
4. Remove UK’s split income restriction.
5. Remove one 5 IPC UK National objective. (Only necessary in the Global Game)

Note: I am hoping that removing UK’s split income restriction will make up for a weaker UK capital without being over powered. (Larry has expressed concern that UK would     be too powerful if UK could spend all of its income at its capital. This concern was not repeated for India.) Based on starting income UK would only be able to spend an additional 4 IPCs at it’s capital. Conversely UK could spend an additional 22 IPCs at India plus whatever NOs UK has in the global game which concerns me. Either way it will take a few plays to figure out balance.

I am open to any thoughts you may have.

P.S. FMG I would definitely buy those Canadian dice.

[lnmajor]

how about Canadian special forces with hockey sticks and they wack grenades with the hockey sticks over long distances? :-D

[hewhoisnickel]

I’m liking those NOs Bob. There is a bit of a problem with taking away 5 IPCs as well as all of Canada’s IPCs, because even with a non-split economy, either India or the British Isles will be subject to fall very easily. In fact, the best option might be to keep the economy split, keep all NOs and add one more, but have the option to spend NOs in either half. Changing the UK to more immediate NOs might help too. So these, for example, would work to help prevent a Sea Lion or J1 Crush, but also preventing easy IPCs later in the game.

-Gain 5 IPCs every turn that Canada and ANZAC control all original territories.
Will almost always have it at the beginning.
-Gain 5 IPCs every turn that the UK controls the Suez Canal and the Straight of Gibraltar.
Again, will almost always have it for the first few turns.
-Gain 5 IPCs every turn that at least one European French territory is controlled by the Allies.
Even shorter period of time here, but still useful for preventing a Sea Lion.

For Euro '40 I’d suggest immediate NOs too. Perhaps just the latter two previously suggested.

I do realize this slightly unfairly tips the scales to the Allies, but I still think it would be the best for keeping the UK at the level it’s at now. Any suggestions for balance?

[FieldMarshalGames]

I think that Canada would have to take it’s turn in conjunction with the UK, rather than on a separate turn (Even though being an independent power).  This might make it work.

Canadian and UK forces should be able to attack and move together.

[Rorschach]

@FieldMarshalGames:

LETS GET 'EM CANADA!

/thumbsup for Canadian FMG Combat Dice!!

[allboxcars]

@FieldMarshalGames:

LETS GET 'EM CANADA!

OK so much for avoiding impulse shopping this month!!

And when do these little babies come up for sale?

[oztea]

Just like how the UK is a split economy, make ANZAC a split economy

It is now the British Commonweath Forces, it uses grey ANZAC pieces

Keep all income seperate for Canadian roundel territories and ANZAC roundel territories.
ANZAC 10 IPCs
Canada 7 IPCs

Due to the special nature of Canada, it may not take control of territories itself, it does so on behalf of the United Kindom, this money goes to London.

Modify the starting set up, just a tad, to give Canada a boost. +1 Fighter, +1 Artilery

Add two NOs for Canada.
+5 IPCs If the United States is at war with the Axis Powers and all Canadian territories are allied controled
+5 IPCs If Canada has units in Normandy/Borduex

[calvinhobbesliker]

@oztea:

Just like how the UK is a split economy, make ANZAC a split economy

It is now the British Commonweath Forces, it uses grey ANZAC pieces

Keep all income seperate for Canadian roundel territories and ANZAC roundel territories.
ANZAC 10 IPCs
Canada 7 IPCs

Due to the special nature of Canada, it may not take control of territories itself, it does so on behalf of the United Kindom, this money goes to London.

Modify the starting set up, just a tad, to give Canada a boost. +1 Fighter, +1 Artilery

Add two NOs for Canada.
+5 IPCs If the United States is at war with the Axis Powers and all Canadian territories are allied controled
+5 IPCs If Canada has units in Normandy/Borduex

Give 5 ipc’s to the UK as a NO to balance the loss of 7 ipc’s