@SuperbattleshipYamato hard to argue against any of this really. The IJN was so far gone by this point in the war that there’s not really much they could have done to salvage their situation one way or another. The bit about the allies not having many LSTs in general is something I never knew before though.
Dunkirk
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Only those who are misinformed.
Sorry it’s not my case…Actually yes they did have a choice.
No Canadians were sent into harm’s way without the explicit agreement by the Canadian Government in WW2. In the case of Dieppe the Cdn Govt was actively seeking to get into the fight and requested to participate in the raid.
Ya I know…that the ‘‘official reason’’ Canadian government wanna fight…
But they didn’t measure the consequences.
Don’t forget…there always a motivation behind a decision.As for misinformed Canadians… well, I was casting my suspicions on much younger generations of “internet savvy” Canadians who couldn’t find Dieppe on a map but can find a conspiracy theory under every casualty.
So IMTO if someone’s ascribing sinister Imperialist motivations to the inept & amatuer planning of JUBILEE then I’d characterize that as misinformation.
Again it’s not my case, I’m not just so credulous as some canadian.
Conspiracy? who’s talking about conspiracy? -
As for misinformed Canadians… well, I was casting my suspicions on much younger generations of “internet savvy” Canadians who couldn’t find Dieppe on a map but can find a conspiracy theory under every casualty.
So IMTO if someone’s ascribing sinister Imperialist motivations to the inept & amatuer planning of JUBILEE then I’d characterize that as misinformation.
Again it’s not my case, I’m not just so credulous as some canadian.
Conspiracy? who’s talking about conspiracy?No. Actually ascribing sinister motivations is your case.
You are. If it were a historical fact that Dieppe was launched for the purpose of “saving British skins” at the expense of the Canadians then it would require a conspiracy.
#721
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Dunkirk was the stolen Victory…Dieppe just a disaster and D-Day just the weirdest Landing ever…
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@aequitas:
Dunkirk was the stolen Victory…Dieppe just a disaster and D-Day just the weirdest Landing ever…
weirdest landing that was a do or die situation for the Allies.
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@Dylan:
@aequitas:
Dunkirk was the stolen Victory…Dieppe just a disaster and D-Day just the weirdest Landing ever…
weirdest landing that was a do or die situation for the Allies.
I think do or die is a bit of a overstatement. They could of failed and still won the war, in my opinion D-Day mainly served the purpose of liberating Western Europe before the Soviets got to the English Channel. The Allies still had their beach head in Italy and even if the entire invasion force was annihalated it was only 150,000 men, thats less than what the British brought back from Dunkirk in operation dynamo. I know it seems a bit cold to say its only 150,000 casualties but in the grand scheme of a World War the allies would of recovered to try again else where, they still had all of the ships and equipment for another landing.
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@Dylan:
@aequitas:
Dunkirk was the stolen Victory…Dieppe just a disaster and D-Day just the weirdest Landing ever…
weirdest landing that was a do or die situation for the Allies.
I think do or die is a bit of a overstatement. They could of failed and still won the war, in my opinion D-Day mainly served the purpose of liberating Western Europe before the Soviets got to the English Channel. The Allies still had their beach head in Italy and even if the entire invasion force was annihalated it was only 150,000 men, thats less than what the British brought back from Dunkirk in operation dynamo. I know it seems a bit cold to say its only 150,000 casualties but in the grand scheme of a World War the allies would of recovered to try again else where, they still had all of the ships and equipment for another landing.
-as I mentioned it in this Forum somewhere allready, the total numbers of casulties for the 13 Phase long Normandy campaigne was arround 250.000 men and officers on the Allies side…this was the number the United Staff of U.S Army figured as casulties for the whole “liberating Operation” from D-day to Berlin would be…crazy isn’t ?..
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@aequitas:
@Dylan:
@aequitas:
Dunkirk was the stolen Victory…Dieppe just a disaster and D-Day just the weirdest Landing ever…
weirdest landing that was a do or die situation for the Allies.
I think do or die is a bit of a overstatement. They could of failed and still won the war, in my opinion D-Day mainly served the purpose of liberating Western Europe before the Soviets got to the English Channel. The Allies still had their beach head in Italy and even if the entire invasion force was annihalated it was only 150,000 men, thats less than what the British brought back from Dunkirk in operation dynamo. I know it seems a bit cold to say its only 150,000 casualties but in the grand scheme of a World War the allies would of recovered to try again else where, they still had all of the ships and equipment for another landing.
-as I mentioned it in this Forum somewhere allready, the total numbers of casulties for the 13 Phase long Normandy campaigne was arround 250.000 men and officers on the Allies side…this was the number the United Staff of U.S Army figured as casulties for the whole “liberating Operation” from D-day to Berlin would be…crazy isn’t ?..
Allied casualty projections have always been woefully low, especially those projections made by the U.S High command for campaigns like Iwo Jima or Okinawa. The United States brass continually underestimated both the Nazi’s and the Japanese especially their resolve to win at such a high cost in men and equipment. If the U.S high command took the Germans seriously there wouldnt of been only 1 understrength division defending the entire Ardennes in late 1944, if the Germans had greater resources they may very well of split the allied forces in half and repeated their successes they had during the battle of France, thankfully though allied strategic bombing destroyed much of the Nazi’s industrial capacity and most of the German troops were occupied on the Eastern front.
D-Day wasnt just a triumph of the military might of the allied forces it was more a triumph of the vast deceptions that made the Normady landings possible, like the false intelligence provided to the Germans that said the landings would be at Calais or the false invasion fleet that tricked the Germans into thinking that there would be an invasion in Norway. These operations made sure allied forces got ashore safely and that they werent at the mercy of a counter attack from greater numbers of infantry and possibly 3 or 4 Panzer divisions.
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