Well… I did not look to start a war here, but I concede that you have come up with some pretty good points here.
I do not mean to belittle French contributions to the war… they are what they are, be them big or small. I simple wish to reiterate that France played less of a role in major battles and fronts than their Allies. I agree with you that they were very important, if not pivotal at some points. However, I question the ability of a boardgame to simulate what the French did in the war. While I do not object to their inclusion in the game, I do not forsee them playing as big a role in it as they did in the real war. Obviously I have not seen or played the game yet, but what I really am getting at here is: giving the most prominent positions (in gameplay and on the box cover) to those who played the most prominent parts. My joking about Napoleon aside, I am not opposed to having a French flag on the box… it just seems like if they don’t have a ‘major’ role in the game, why give them the biggest (or second biggest) flag? Can you argue that the French did more in the war than the British, the Russians or the Americans? I know they did a lot, based on what you have described, but the Big Three allies participated in all that and more.
As for Germany, swastikas etc… I obviously did not consider the game’s sales world wide. I agree that in Germany, certain subjects in World War II are way beyond taboo. And I realize why swastikas and the like will not be appearing on Axis and Allies products. While I disagree with the censorship, I also do not and have not lived in Germany, so I don’t know what kind of pain-shame-embarassment still resides there. Due to this lack of knowledge, I cannot say “put swastikas in the game and hope it sells”. Perhaps in Germany it is common sense to not have swastikas on merchandise. Perhaps it is a wise business decision based on the social restrictions in that country.
Let me revise, or rather clarify, my statement that “those who oppose the game with a swastika on it are ignorant”: those who would decry the game or its developers because there was, say, a Nazi flag on the box, are ignorant. There are people who would claim racism or any number of things against whatever carries that symbol. Those people are ignorant. They care only that the symbol is there, what it stands for and what it means to them. They do not even think its image is acceptable in the context of a historical rendering.
Now, people who would oppose this because their argument is, “Oh, that is not such a good idea, because people in Germany would not take it so well,” or, “Well, other people might think it is bad and then it wouldn’t sell and there would be bad publicity, so it is better not to put a swastika on the box,” …. I can respect these arguments, and I am willing to back down from my insistence on there being a Nazi flag on the box. Because these statements are intelligent, they have good reasons behind them and are founded in what you said UN Spacy: Common Sense.
I can be resigned to the fact that there will never be a swastika on an AA box. I realize that nothing I say here will help my cause with the people who would matter. I just do not agree with it. Yes, in a perfect world, maybe it could work. Maybe no one would be offended and we could all recognize it as the past and have humanity vow that it would never happen again. But my argument becomes pointless because that will obviously never happen. There will never be a swastika on the box. OK. I am fine with that being the case, even if I wish it were not true.
Yes, Hitler did “some bad stuff”.
People will always teach that what Hitler did was wrong (except perhaps those who want Israel destroyed… ahem…Ahmadinejad) … Need I say what has already been said, and what everyone already knows? If anyone does not know what the Nazis did to Jews and others, tell me and I will begin a litany for you. Until then, I will just assume everyone here knows exactly what “bad stuff” I meant. Otherwise I spell it all out and that post becomes three times longer than it is.
People will not forget about Hitler, or what he did, and not having swastikas on this game will not affect our world at all. But I was referencing a trend towards people in seats of authority, ranging from parents to governments, to hide what we don’t wish to see, what may be ugly and disturbing. Even if it is the truth. Like I said, people will still know about Hitler and the Nazis, regardless is they are portrayed in minor boardgame played by a few people. But it is the lack of portrayal in this game that is simply another example of the trend in that lack of recognition. I don’t know that I can blame Avalon Hill or Mr. Harris for not showing a swastika when they are pressured by world wide sentiment against it. While they might be doing something completely innoccent in portraying history with a swastika… I know that doesn’t mean that everyone else will see it that way. I retract my previous comments (“dammit… show real history etc…”) as they were directed at Avalon Hill or Mr. Harris. But I keep those comments as they pertain to the world as a whole.
I also agree with your comments, UN Spacy, on the Soviet vs. Nazi flags/symbols … you are right that the Sovie… I mean Russians are not as shameful over their previous government as the Germans are, but in reality they ought to be. If you look at the facts and history of it all. I could argue that Soviet Communism has caused more wars and death and suffering to the human spirit than the Hitler and the Nazis did. If not for Lenin and the birth of the Soviet Union, would we have had the Korean war, Vietnam war, Kim Jong Il, Mao, Stalin, Castro… My point is that communists have caused far more worldwide suffering than the Nazis did. Whether or not the world recognizes that… I don’t necessarily have control over. Part of the reason the general public might not know all this is because a good portion of the world was, and still is communist, and thus they control what others see. I am not defending the Nazis, but they get all the blame when the guys on “our side” were just as bad.
Again, it is too bad that the world doesn’t recognize this… but that does not change the fact that the swastika IS hated more than the hammer and the sickle.
Hey, what is this garbage about the Allies starting the war. The aggressor was clearly Germany in the West 1939 and Japan in the East 1931. Yeah, the Allies had to officially START the war otherwise the opposition would have simply laid down and we would not have had a war!
