can a british plane fly over chinese and japanese territory to Hong Kong (India to hong kong) during peacetime without provoking war between ANZAC, Britian, and Japan.
yes! :-)
@Panz3r:
yes! :-)
I disagree. Page 8 of the manual says: “Air units cannot fly over a neutral territory unless they are attacking it”. Japan starts the game as neutral towards all the Allied powers with the exception of China (FAQ), thus it should not be possible to overfly Japanese territories.
Regarding movement to Chinese territories, the Manual states on page 8: “If Britain and/or ANZAC […] move units into China this will immediately result in a state of war between Japan and those 2 powers”. The rule doesn’t appear to be limited to combat moves and/or move can be interpreted as either landing or simply overflying those territories.
It’s better to wait for the guru (Krieghund) to give a proper answer though.
maybe you are alright probably the rule you told its relative to neutral states like mongolia… but it’s true that japan it’s neutral with other allies power i don’t know let’s wait :) ty for your point of view
@Panz3r:
yes! :-)
I disagree. Page 8 of the manual says: “Air units cannot fly over a neutral territory unless they are attacking it”. Japan starts the game as neutral towards all the Allied powers with the exception of China (FAQ), thus it should not be possible to overfly Japanese territories.
Regarding movement to Chinese territories, the Manual states on page 8: “If Britain and/or ANZAC […] move units into China this will immediately result in a state of war between Japan and those 2 powers”. The rule doesn’t appear to be limited to combat moves and/or move can be interpreted as either landing or simply overflying those territories.
It’s better to wait for the guru (Krieghund) to give a proper answer though.
The excerpt you are talking about Hobbes comes from the Neutral Territories section of the page, which is talking entirely about Mongolia. While Japan is neutral with the Allies, this section isn’t talking about the Allies.
I’m betting Hobbes is right. Let’s see what Krieg says.
Well, I’m assuming the British fighter is flying to Hong Kong during NCM, so I don’t think that would provoke a war, or at least constitute it due to the current rules/errata.
Well, I’m assuming the British fighter is flying to Hong Kong during NCM, so I don’t think that would provoke a war, or at least constitute it due to the current rules/errata.
Wouldn’t matter if it was NCM or CM. Current errata states that in order for Britain or Anzac to move into China in ANY phase (as it’s an act of aggression whether or not it’s CM or NCM), a declaration of war must be made at the beginning of the Combat Phase. If you didn’t declare war, you couldn’t legally do an NCM over china and into Hong Kong, unless there’s a new errata ruling that revises a UK/ANZAC flyover of either japanese or Chinese territories as a move that maintains neutrality. Otherwise the UK/Anzac needs to fly over water.
@Panz3r:
maybe you are alright probably the rule you told its relative to neutral states like mongolia… but it’s true that japan it’s neutral with other allies power i don’t know let’s wait :) ty for your point of view
Yeah, thinking better about it I have doubts as well, most likely this neutral rule applies just to territories (like Mongolia) rather than powers (UK/ANZAC to Japan), I remember something mentioned about it on a post before but I can’t remember what it said exactly.
and Japan."
Well, I’m assuming the British fighter is flying to Hong Kong during NCM, so I don’t think that would provoke a war, or at least constitute it due to the current rules/errata.
Wouldn’t matter if it was NCM or CM. Current errata states that in order for Britain or Anzac to move into China in ANY phase (as it’s an act of aggression whether or not it’s CM or NCM), a declaration of war must be made at the beginning of the Combat Phase. If you didn’t declare war, you couldn’t legally do an NCM over china and into Hong Kong, unless there’s a new errata ruling that revises a UK/ANZAC flyover of either japanese or Chinese territories as a move that maintains neutrality. Otherwise the UK/Anzac needs to fly over water.
The way I see it as;
The British fighter wouldn’t be moving into Chinese territory, rather it would be flying over it to reach its own destination. I see nothing in the errata that stops this.
Remember this;
“Air units may move through hostile territories and sea zones as if they were friendly.”
And this is when they are at war, so yeah… :|
The way I see it as;
The British fighter wouldn’t be moving into Chinese territory, rather it would be flying over it to reach its own destination. I see nothing in the errata that stops this.
Remember this;
“Air units may move through hostile territories and sea zones as if they were friendly.”
And this is when they are at war, so yeah… :|
Rules have pretty much established thus far that Britain cannot move “into” China, and I would argue that moving “through” (you just quoted it) a neutral territory is an act of moving “into” and then out of.
While I would prefer that the UK be able to reinforce from India, according to the way the rules are worded right now they don’t appear to be able to do that without declaring war first. If this is changed, it would be an exception to the other ways Neutrals are treated (as china is neutral to Britain when trying to pull this off), as it’s specifically stated you cannot overfly a neutral space, and I thought it has been established that if powers are not at war with each other, they are considered neutral to each other, and ONLY Britain and ANZAC are considered friendly to each other at the beginning of the game. China and Britain are neutral until Japan or Britain declare war on the other.
I can see it this way: Britain didn’t expect (or at least was surprised) to be attacked by Japan, so why would they heavily reinforce Hong Kong with suadrons of frontline fighters and bombers. Sounds like a hostile act to me!
The way I see it as;
The British fighter wouldn’t be moving into Chinese territory, rather it would be flying over it to reach its own destination. I see nothing in the errata that stops this.
Remember this;
“Air units may move through hostile territories and sea zones as if they were friendly.”
And this is when they are at war, so yeah… :|
The thing is that there doesn’t seem exist a difference between flying over and moving on the manual/errata. Air units simply ‘move’, like you mentioned on the example regarding hostile territories. Thus, the logic would be that UK fighters cannot move over China unless they declare war on Japan, as the rule states.
Hrm.
I really do see where Hobbes and kcdzim are coming from, but what is keeping me from conforming, is such;
1: Rules/errata have established that in order to enter Chinese territory, the UK/ANZAC forces must declare war on Japan. Correct?
2: Pertaining to the original post, I am assuming the British player can only even think moving this fighter unit to Hong Kong during their Noncombat move. Correct?
3: Pertaining to point 1, wouldn’t moving a fighter into Chinese territory require it to stop there, thus ending its movement? That is how I currently interpret this matter, the unit must enter Chinese space and stay there.
Hobbes and kcdzim are right. Allied air units can’t fly over China unless their owners are at war with Japan.
Hobbes and kcdzim are right. Allied air units can’t fly over China unless their owners are at war with Japan.
OK, thanks for the clarification. Could you also clarify about Allied air units flying over Japanese territory while not at a state of war with Japan?
Hobbes and kcdzim are right. Allied air units can’t fly over China unless their owners are at war with Japan.
OK, thanks for the clarification. Could you also clarify about Allied air units flying over Japanese territory while not at a state of war with Japan?
That’s crazy-talk. A neutral is a neutral is a neutral. While they aren’t technically friendly and never could be, if there’s no state of war between the UK and Japan, the UK cannot overfly a japanese (neutral) territory without first declaring war. If the UK tries to fly over any neutral it’s either a violation of now enemy airspace and needed a declaration(Japan or Mongolia) or it’s a violation of neutral airspace, and they’re denying you passage because you’re not helping their cause (China) or they’re isolationsists and just plain can’t be bothered with your petty foreign troubles (US). :wink: Same applies to any other Allied (but not actually yet Allied) plane
Thanks for the clarification!
Really does help.
Hobbes and kcdzim are right. Allied air units can’t fly over China unless their owners are at war with Japan.
OK, thanks for the clarification. Could you also clarify about Allied air units flying over Japanese territory while not at a state of war with Japan?
That’s crazy-talk. A neutral is a neutral is a neutral. While they aren’t technically friendly and never could be, if there’s no state of war between the UK and Japan, the UK cannot overfly a japanese (neutral) territory without first declaring war. If the UK tries to fly over any neutral it’s either a violation of now enemy airspace and needed a declaration(Japan or Mongolia) or it’s a violation of neutral airspace, and they’re denying you passage because you’re not helping their cause (China) or they’re isolationsists and just plain can’t be bothered with your petty foreign troubles (US). :wink: Same applies to any other Allied (but not actually yet Allied) plane
That’s my interpretation as well, I just want some official confirmation ;)
UK/ANZAC and Japanese air units may fly over each other’s territories (outside of China) when they’re not at war. The rules at the top of page 8 that apply to neutral territories apply only to neutral territories, such as the Mongolian territories. Neutral powers have different rules, as outlined in the political rules.
Technically, Japan, China and UK/ANZAC are not neutral anyway, as they are each at war with someone (Japan and China are at war with each other, and UK/ANZAC is at war with Germany). Only the US is truly neutral, as it is at war with no one. That’s why its rules are even more restrictive than other powers’ rules. While the US remains at peace, its air units may not fly over other powers’ territories, and vice versa.
