Not my #s…
just my emphasis!
:-P
:-)
Weapons of Mass Destruction and Iraq
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Deviant, where are the checks and balances? You believe in the American Government system, as I do, but possibly the most important part you insist on excluding on the international stage.
Simply enough, we’re going to get into a lot of long term trouble if we go around and “disarm” half the world. Weapons of Mass Destruction are not illegal, although in Iraq they were.
The right to develope weapons is not a privelage, its a right. Its called being a sovereign nation. Just because we have more guns doesn’t mean we should be going around denying countries their rights.
To follow up . . .
Call me Iraq. Now until i was 18 (give or take) my privileges were assigned to me by my parents and by my teachers etc. Now my privileges at the hospital are assigned me by the hospital and the university.
My question is what did America do for the authority of granting and removing privileges? My parents may not authorize your curfew, nor are you answerable to them. Of course my parents came by this authority honestly having given birth to me and being in a reasonable position to have my best interests at heart.
The US on the other hand has very little that i can see in the way of having any reasonable authority to act in granting or removing these so-called privileges. Unless you look on the school yard around the swings area where the biggest boy can determine who has the privilege of being on the swing and who has to go play elsewhere. They have this authority as the unwritten rule of the schoolyard. Why? Because he’s bigger.
You talk about having trust in the US as its ally. That becomes increasingly difficult to do when your ally lies to you (i.e. “here’s proof of WMD . . . Whoops - i guess not”) and when they do something that is illegal that breaches your own moral code.
Until the weapons are found, in my mind they do not exist. When they are found, then it will have been a retrospective “save” for the US on the international stage, but it will not have justified its invasion as they would have been a spurious finding at that point. -
Deviant, where are the checks and balances? You believe in the American Government system, as I do, but possibly the most important part you insist on excluding on the international stage.
Simply enough, we’re going to get into a lot of long term trouble if we go around and “disarm” half the world. Weapons of Mass Destruction are not illegal, although in Iraq they were.
The right to develope weapons is not a privelage, its a right. Its called being a sovereign nation. Just because we have more guns doesn’t mean we should be going around denying countries their rights.
Simply enough, Iraq lost their right to possess the worst types of weapons when they started going around and enciting wars and wreaking mass havoc on neighboring countries. We didn’t try to mandate Iraq’s ability to defend itself, nor did we try to completely disarm them–even after they invaded Kuwait. They were allowed to have conventional weapons, but under no circumstances were they allowed to have biological, chemical, or even nuclear. In fact, they weren’t even allowed to research the weapons.
Now if I understand you correct (and I hope I do), you’re arguing that Iraq is a soveirgn nation and is therefore allowed (by right of being such a nation) to possess said weapons. And you see no danger in this? I guess the part I disagree upon is where it comes to history repeating itself. I’d rather not get to the point of having one more madman in this world (can anyone say “kim jong-il”) who possesses weapons that can annihaliate millions instantly.
Right now, Terrorism is not a big deal. Cigarettes, Beer and Drugs each kill many times more people per year than terrorism has killed in modern history. If we continue going around the world creating more terrorism, we might become Israel.
Best thing we can do? Tell Israel “You have one month to stop inciting violence and ignore Hamas, or no more 4 billion dollars in weapons per year”
Beer, cigrettes, and drugs are all voluntary poisens that you insert into your body. Nobody asks to be burned alive at 3,000 degrees on the 75th floor of a skyscraper. Creating terrorism you say? Seems to me like it’s already there…. :roll:
Best thing we can do? Tell Israel “You have one month to stop inciting violence and ignore Hamas, or no more 4 billion dollars in weapons per year”
Ignore Hamas? LOL :P
You seriously think that if you just ignore them, that they’re going to stop? Just like that? Magically just lay down their arms and hold hands with the Israelis? Somebody please slap me so I can get back to reality… :-?
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Deviant,
Bombing Hamas into submission hasn’t worked. Its just made the process much worse. What I’m saying is continue on with the peace process despite Hamas trying to undermine it.
Weapons of Mass Destruction are simply psychological weapons. In truth, its a lot easier to aquire a crate of C-4 and blow it up near a busy intersection than release a little bit of Anthrax through the mail, and more people will die by the C-4.
Giving in to the psychological warfare is exactly how we’re going to lose this war. Terrorism is not a major cause of death, but it could be.
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@El:
F_alk,
Are you saying that because it doesn’t say…
"Para. 5…Recognizing the threat Iraq’s noncompliance with Council resolutions and
IRAQ’S proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and long-range missiles poses to international peace and security,
…
They are talking about two different things?Exactly.
Look at GWB talking about Iraq and 9/11. He managed to make it look like they had some common ground. Very much like the above. It can easily be understood the way that Iraq is in both parts of the sentence above, but it doesn’t say so.@D:S:
The US doesn’t simply “hope it’s right” while at the same time sending 500,000 troops into war.
You still believe it was about WMDs? You must be one of the last ones to believe that, D:S. Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz both said that this reason was not the main reason for them, just for the PR work they had to do. And both had this war on their agenda since 1991 (read “Rebuilding Americas Defenses” etc.). Wether 1441 authorized you is a question for lawyers. And porbably, you should take a look at that “B” option yourself.
They are privelages. Privelages need to be earned. Countries like Iraq and North Korea have already had their opportunity to possess WMD’s legitimately.
When? How can you legitimately possess WMDs, except for nuclear ones if you are one of those exceptions in the proliferation-ban-treaty? Even Israel is not legitimate to possess nuclear weapons……
And for Hamas, they offered a ceasefire yesterday. Of course, they had some contitions on Israel to be fulfilled, but doesn’t Israel work the same way with ceasefires only on contidions? I hope that this becomes one of the first steps to peace there.
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Best thing we can do? Tell Israel “You have one month to stop inciting violence and ignore Hamas, or no more 4 billion dollars in weapons per year”
Wow, that one even took me by surprise. My question would at what point can Israel go after Hamas?
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When? How can you legitimately possess WMDs, except for nuclear ones if you are one of those exceptions in the proliferation-ban-treaty? Even Israel is not legitimate to possess nuclear weapons…
When have they had their opportunity or when did they blow their opportunity?
And for Hamas, they offered a ceasefire yesterday. Of course, they had some contitions on Israel to be fulfilled, but doesn’t Israel work the same way with ceasefires only on contidions? I hope that this becomes one of the first steps to peace there.
Wow F_alk, only your blissful ignorance could mustle up enough bullshit to put the words Hamas and peace in the same sentence. Do you really not want to look at the facts? Hamas has already declared and vowed themselves to disrupting any attempt at a peace process, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE PALESTENIANS GET! HELLO?!?! :o YOU STILL WANT TO NEGOTIATE WITH THESE PEOPLE?!?! :o :o GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND!!! :o :o :o
…okay, time to settle down D:S… :wink:
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Yeah, gotta’ pseudo agree with D:S on the whole Hamas-earthquake thing. Really - those guys are pretty much evil.
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Didnt hamas release a press statement on like Friday saying something along the lines of we dont care what the prime minister agrees to, we got Jews to kill…
I am gonna dig about on the internet and see if I can find something about it.
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Ok, couldn’t find the article I was talking about but I am pretty sure I didn’t imagine it. Here is what i did find though.
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=414963
blow up the Zionist entity and tear it to pieces"
"launch a series of new attacks against the Israeli people by the youths of Palestine. This crime will not pass without punishment.‘’
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2983426.stm
“the first in a new series of operations… targeting every Zionist usurping our land”.
turn the Zionist entity’s state into rubble
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Didnt hamas release a press statement on like Friday saying something along the lines of we dont care what the prime minister agrees to, we got Jews to kill…
Yep, that was Friday. But today i read in the papaers which i had seen before, that Hamas offers a ceasefire as well, based on terms that Hamas and the palestinian gov’t have discussed and fixed.
@Deviant:Scripter:
When? How can you legitimately possess WMDs, except for nuclear ones if you are one of those exceptions in the proliferation-ban-treaty?
When have they had their opportunity or when did they blow their opportunity?
Both. The only answer you could give is about “when the proliferation-treaty was signed……” but that would be a tad of a short-sighted answer.
And for Hamas, they offered a ceasefire yesterday. Of course, they had some contitions on Israel to be fulfilled, but doesn’t Israel work the same way with ceasefires only on contidions? I hope that this becomes one of the first steps to peace there.
Wow F_alk, only your blissful ignorance could mustle up enough bullshit to put the words Hamas and peace in the same sentence. Do you really not want to look at the facts? Hamas has already declared and vowed themselves to disrupting any attempt at a peace process, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE PALESTENIANS GET! HELLO?!?! :o YOU STILL WANT TO NEGOTIATE WITH THESE PEOPLE?!?! :o :o GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND!!! :o :o :o
Yeah, people can’t change, and can’t learn and their minds will never be accessible to “what has to be done”.
D:S, never judge others by yourself. Just because you can’t learn doesn’t mean others can’t. Try not to watch Fox only. Education doesn’t hurt.
I was quoting what their leader said. And never forget: for a spiral of violence to work, you need two parties to turn the screw. -
I was quoting what their leader said.
You’ve got bigger problems than being wrong when you start believing what the leaders of terrorist organizations say. :roll:
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@Deviant:Scripter:
You’ve got bigger problems than being wrong when you start believing what the leaders of terrorist organizations say. :roll:
Did the news make it to you about what Sharon said? That they could silently keep building in the palestine areas, but cannot talk about it anymore? That they just should not dance happily every time they allow new buildings….
That is contradicting the roadmap…
He also first offered an armistice with Hamas, and just two days later say that every leader of Hamas is a target…Anyway… you choose to believe everything that GWB and Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz etc. say… I think the Hamas leaders have lied less than those.
To believe someone, it should not mind at all wether you agree or disagree with him/her. All it comes down is wether that person is known to tell the truth or wether it “blurs” it. -
This is true, ironically enough.
I think i’m more apt to believe what the head of Hamas says than either head of government of a North American country.
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