Chinese bug(not Covid)

[CaptainNapalm]

FEC, turn 1.
Attacks Yunnan, turning all warlords KMT.
KMT, turn 1.
Already a major power.

My buddy noticed this, yesterday, and we didn’t allow it, but don’t see where it’s prohibited, in the rules. Yes, it costs the Allies $16, but that’s a small price to pay.

[insaneHoshi]

Chinese Warlords are not really minor nations, despite them looking like them.

What’s more, an attack on a warlord is considered to be an attack of all of china. This would involve a attack on KMT with is forbidden by an allied power.

Also sending the USA to -2 (well 0) income at the start of the game, is not an insignificant price to pay. The Usa would be effectively losing like 60 IPC over the 10 turns or so they are not at wartime income. And they would join the war later.

[PanzerBaguette]

It is clearly impossible to do your move. FEC shares diplomacy with Great-Britain, which can’t make a DoW until it has reached its wartime income. Thus, Great-Britain and FEC are unable to do it.

[insaneHoshi]

@panzerbaguette UK can declare war on a minor nation at any point.

[Chris_Henry]

I definitely appreciate this being noticed and attempted haha, but I’d have to agree with @insaneHoshi on two big parts.

1. While it’s not written in the rules specifically, I think he’s right in saying that the warlords aren’t really minor nations in the sense that other countries are minor nations in the game. But I think you could debate that.

2. The biggest thing for me is what he said about an attack on warlords being an attack on all of China. That effectively means that the FEC is de facto attacking the KMT, which they obviously can’t do as a fellow Allied Power.

But a really interesting situation nonetheless.

What I do wonder though in a similar vein, is what would happen with this same scenario but late in the game if the FEC (or any Allied nation) had the ability to attack the CCP and there were still warlords on the board? Don’t get me wrong, this is obviously a slim chance of happening for sure. But maybe the USSR declares war on an Allied power on like the 5th turn lets say and maybe the warlords have been left untouched (and the Axis and Allies are at war with each other per the USSR reference sheet). Well, then the FEC could declare war on the CCP, making all warlords side with the KMT, right? Is that possible I wonder? It’s not an attack on a warlord in this scenario, but still has the same effect of turning warlords to the KMT earlier than would have otherwise happened.

Again, long shot. This would require Japan to have stayed out of China, and for the Axis and Allied powers to already be at war, as well as the CCP haven’t failed to influence the warlords to this point, and/or the CCP or KMT to have attacked the warlords by this point either. But is I suppose technically possible!

[CaptainNapalm]

@chris_henry if FEC are allowed to attack the CCP, I don’t see why FEC couldn’t attack a warlord. As stated, it’s an attack on all of China. If the game developers don’t want interference in the Chinese Civil War, similar to the Spanish Civil War, the rules should say so…with any exceptions listed. Japan, USSR, etc.

[Chris_Henry]

@captainnapalm I’m just pointing out that the UK reference sheet for the “Declarations of War” section specifically mentions the ability to declare war on the CCP. There is no specific mention of declarations of war on warlords (again, unless considering them as minor powers). So my example was more of one that we know for sure could happen in game.

Attacking a warlord is essentially attacking the KMT in a sense. But it’s not really the same way if attacking the CCP. By the letter of the law it would still activate the warlords for the KMT without having to actually attack the warlords. That’s all I was pointing out.

But yeah, I guess the real question is if the warlords are considered minor nations or not. The game refers to them as “factions” all the time, but I suppose looking at 4.2 Minor Powers that it says "All other nations are Minor Powers. Without any other ruling, I suppose that’s the letter of the law, and warlords would be considered minor nations? I don’t know I guess.

My gut tells me it wasn’t really considered that the Allies might attack a warlord given the chance, and that this wasn’t meant to be able to happen. But that’s purely conjecture on my part!

[GeneralHandGrenade]

There will be a FAQ out in the next couple of minutes.
First of all the FEC could not make a combat move through the Himalayas. After the Burma Road opens the road is only used for Lend Lease and non-combat movement.
As was mentioned earlier, the FEC is governed by the British diplomacy rules and as such could not declare war on anyone until they reach their Wartime Income level.
The Warlords are not minor powers. They are semi-autonomous regions of China which is part of the KMT. The only region that isn’t part of the KMT is the region controlled by the CCP. It is because of this that the Allies cannot attack a Warlord territory. Only the Comintern and the Axis can attack a Warlord territory. A Warlord would only side with the Comintern if the KMT attacked them.
Thanks for pointing out that we omitted the connection between the Warlords and KMT, @CaptainNapalm.

[Chris_Henry]

@generalhandgrenade Thanks GHG! That’s what I was figured. And good point on the Yunnan attack not even being possible in the first place! All my examples were solely for explaining the potential of an attack anywhere (not necessarily Yunnan), but you’re right of course that the initial example shouldn’t have even been allowed in the first place!

[CaptainNapalm]

@chris_henry @GeneralHandGrenade Yunnan was a bad example. I should have said Kwangtung. But, it sounds like the warlords are semi-autonomous members of KMT, not minor powers. Thank you for the clarification!

[CaptainNapalm]

@Chris_Henry I wonder if you ever got clarification on your question? Can the FEC declare war on the CCP(once the conditions are met), and align all neutral warlords to KMT?

It seems like it is allowed. A powerful tool to be mindful of, if so!

[GeneralHandGrenade]

@captainnapalm If the conditions have been met then the FEC would have to make an attack on the CCP to align the Warlords to the KMT. In this case the rules state an attack must be made and not simply a declaration of war.

[CaptainNapalm]

@generalhandgrenade That sounds familiar, and I thought I was familiar with the rule book(s), but I can’t find that rule. Would you, or someone else, please point me to the rule that requires an attack, not just a declaration of war?

[PanzerBaguette]

@captainnapalm Check the KMT or CCP national reference sheet in the section Warlords ( 2nd page). It is written : “An attack by a foreign country on an originally owned Warlord, CCP, or KMT land zone, is considered an attack on all of China and causes all Warlords to Align with KMT”