Japanesse attack on US mainland

[Guest]

The best way to take the US with Japan is with a Japan fleet from SZ12 after it sails through the Suez after securing Africa…  :evil:

[Blodmotor]

If i have hawaii, all of china and alaska, then the US is down to 35. I would be able to land 10 units at a total value of 40 ipc in w. canada each turn. I don’t see how the US with fewer IPC’s, and while trading central USA, could be able to kick japan out of the continent. They have fewer IPC’s and more territories they need to protect. I am not planning on talking the US by suprise, I am planning on using my infrastructure and superior economy to force the allies out of europe and to move the battle to north america.

[Petrucci08]

If you take and hold Western US for a turn then you will take the whole continent. But the distance from supply lines means the US can repulse you. say:

1. japanese set up transport fleet in sz 60 or 62 or split between both.
     The US see the probable attack and plant 10 inf in Wus in addition to any armour that are part of the usual European/Africa Shuck.

2. Japanese hit with 5/5 - 7/7 inf/arm invading alaska or perhaps Wcan or both. If attack is to Wcan or is split US hit Wcan with 10 inf 4 arm from Wus and place another 10 units in Wus.

3. japanese trans move back to sz 60 to reload. any trans attacking Wcan cannot make it back in one turn slowing you down even more. US forces in Wcan hit any forces in Alaska. 10 more units in Wus.

4. Second japanese wave. US places another 10 units. so by this time the japanese have perhaps 14 units in alaska while the US have 20-25 and this gap only widens with successive waves.

And thinking of having 7 trans by turn 4 is a bit of a stretch but i included it to make the point. First building so many trans will give the US even more warning. It will leave you very low on forces. And once you subtract the forces needed to fill those trans you are making no progress towards moscow at all and the Russians are regaining land. I am not saying it CAN’T work, only that it is going to be a hell of a feat to pull off.

[Blodmotor]

I usually do have 5 transports shipping units to the mainland by turn 3.

on turn a) I buy 5 inf and 5 arm and drop the same amount of troops off in buryiat.
on turn b) I take the troops from buryiat (5 arm, 5 inf) to western canada, and buy five trans.
on turn c) I take the troops from Japan (5 inf, 5 arm) and move them t w. canada, i move the fleet that dropped off units in w. canada on turn b) back to japan, and i buy another 5 inf and 5 arm.

this means that there will be a japanesse wave of 10 units each turn.

[Petrucci08]

as soon as someone sees you do that on turn A they will start just pumping out inf at Wus and arm in Eus to counter that. so buy the time you actually drop units in Wcan, the US have at least 20 units in Wus + any thing moving west from the atlantic coast.

the best you could hope for using this method (IMO) is trading Wcan with the US. In which case i would be very happy to do as the US as it takes the whole weight of japanese pressure off Russia. Plus any units the US have already shucked to Africa (probably around a dozen units in those first 4 rounds) will be able to secure africa and start threatening japanese conquests in the middle east with very little reinforcements coming their way as they are all caught up in Wcan.

[allies_fly]

As the allies, I like it when they (Japan) take the fight to the US.  Pressure on Russia is greatly reduced and ground units are the most cost effective piece (US buys)

As Pertucci08 points out, it’s hard to catch the US off guard to gain an upperhand.  A compentant US player will buckle down with bunches of inf/art to keep Japan at bay.

[TimTheEnchanter]

To get 10 units per turn you’re building 8 units in japan plus diverting units from FIC?  If you send 5inf/5arm to n.america you’ve only got 4 more units being produced (1 in FIC, 3 in india).  If your income is at 52, you’ve only got enough to buy 4 inf.  You’ll be hard-pressed to keep your income at 52 putting only 4 men into asia each turn.

Furthermore, the US will have the ability to ‘economize’ buying more infantry with their superior defensive power, and still throw in a tank or two each turn, so even though you are sending more ipcs, they’re able to outproduce you on hit points. With their 35 ipcs, they can easily build 23 defensive hit points and 11 units (10 inf in wus and an arm in eus), while you spend 40ipcs, but only bring 10 units and 20 hit points.  Unless you really catch them off-guard (and more than 4 trns in sz60 should be a huge red flag) it’s hard to get ahead on the economic exchange.  You can spend more, but it’s hard to bring more to the fight.

[losttribe04]

I would have to agree with Tim.  Japan’s supply line is to long to make any real contribution this way.  As the US player I don’t care if Japan takes Hawaii or Alaska economically it doesn’t hurt me but it does give me time to keep them from moving any closer because I can meet them there the next US turn.

If you want to help Germany out use Japan’s ability to dominate the sea.  Ideally around the Pacific and with your IC in India keep the sea zones around N. Africa clear from allied invaders.  Germany now can free up troops from S. Europe. If Japan’s N. Africa fleet does get destroyed they still have a turn or two to mass INF for the invasion.

[Blodmotor]

yeah I guees you’re right the US should buy troops to Wus once they see 5 transports in zone 60, and 10 units in Buriyat, and 10 in japan. But if they do, then I will just keep sending troops to asia instead and the US will have spend 30+ ipc on units that won’t ever get to fight. I see your point though. still I think I will try it out in my next game. if nothing else then just to make the game interesting…

To get 10 units per turn you’re building 8 units in japan plus diverting units from FIC?

In my group we have no purchase limits in capitols.

[axis_roll]

@Blodmotor:

…and the US will have spend 30+ ipc on units that won’t ever get to fight.

oh, they WILL get to fight.  They just take a round or two extra getting to europe as they go the long way thru West Canada.

@Blodmotor:

In my group we have no purchase limits in capitols.

Interesting house rule.  I think that can REALLY help Japan, I mean REALLY help their transport chain.

[Guest]

The only way that Japan can pull this off is with the Siberian Tran Bridge.

Japan sets up a steady shuck into Bury, flooding Asia with INF, ART and ARM.  They send a solid WALL of 8 units per turn into Bury, that then march into Yakut, perhaps even to Evenk or Novo.  They use a mainland IC (or 2) to provide units to defend in China/Sinkiang and to press through India.

So Japan has 4 TRN, and a defensive capital ship or 2 with their TRNs (BB and an empty AC).  They have 8 units in Bury, Yakut, and maybe more to the west of that.  2 FIGs are landed in Bury to support exchanging Evenk/Novo.  They may even have a single picket INF in SFE.

Then BAM!  Japan builds 3 TRNs and 5 land units in Japan, and uses their existing 4 TRN to empty Japan of the 8 units bought the prior turn to grab Alaska heavy, and WCan with the minimal forces to do the job.  The Bury FIGs CAN REACH and land on the AC moved up from SZ60 to SZ63

USA Counterattacks WCan and builds defense.

Then on the next turn, Japan uses the 4 TRN in SZ63 to grab 8 units from Bury, and the 3 new TRN in SZ60 move to SZ63 with the 5 units from Japan and the picket from SFE.  WCan is now being hit with 14 units (8 from Bury, 5 from Japan, 1 from SFE) as well as the BB shot, 2 FIGs from the AC (maybe more if Japan had FIGs available to move to Bury in the prior turn, and maybe a BOM also) plus the land units left alive in Alaska.

On the following turn, 8 more units, that were moved back from Yakut to Bury, get shuttled over using the SZ63 TRNs, and the extras move to Japan to grab units for the FOLLOWING turn.  You may also have more land units from Japan depending on the prior build, and any TRNs from other areas that can be used to ferry troops from Japan to WCan for the second wave attack.  If Japan was able to get a second TRN fleet off FIC with significant land forces in FIC when they pull the trigger on the first wave, the second wave of the attack, the MAIN attack, can easilly have over 20 Japan land units, plus air and naval support.

Anyway, you get the idea.

Might work against a newer player, but once someone has been burned by it, they are not too likely to fall for it again.  And if it fails, Russia becomes a BEAR with the Japan pull back to feed the Siberian Tran Bridge.

Oh, and Siberian Tran Bridge assumes negligible USA Naval forces in the Pacific, and negligible USA Air Forces in North America and the Pacific.

[Crazy Ivan]

Don’t give up hope. Every once in awhile the US player will leave thier guard down, and you can sneak in and grab the Western USA. I did it just the other day with one transport and two infantry from the Soloman Islands. I was just picking up Infantry to bring to The Eastern front and he overlooked the fact and left the single UK unit from W Can in L.A. Wham Bam, thank you man! I took it without a loss!

[Ranor]

The maneuvre discribed by switch can be looked at in this game.

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=11650.0

In turn 10 Japan prepares for the invasion of US in hope of turning a lost game and in round 11 it pulls the trigger and builds another charge of trn.

It didn’t helped me to win the game but it was definitly something to keep in mind for future games. As the invasion was successful in so far as Japan could take WUS on my last turn and would have been able to hold it.

[Croggyl]

@axis_roll:

@Blodmotor:

…and the US will have spend 30+ ipc on units that won’t ever get to fight.

oh, they WILL get to fight.  They just take a round or two extra getting to europe as they go the long way thru West Canada.

In my last games as allies I build most of US ground units in WUS and move them to ECA via WCA.
You have to think one more turn forward and sometimes buy some units in EUS to fill your trannys, but once you established that supply line you are relative save from japanese attacks on north america because of eight or more units constantly shift through WCA.
And I mostly build six INF, one ART and one ARM per turn, so there is enough attack power. And if you have an US bomber at UK, then that bomber can reach ALA or WCA too.

[losttribe04]

I have always used the Ho Chi Min trail stragety as the US also.  It takes a little longer to get things going but having a solid wall of troops cycling through the continent is a deterent.  And even if Japan still decides to attack and takes that territory, the US will have a force to be delt with in adjacent territories.

As Japan I think you would have better luck focusing mostly on mainland Asia and as a secondary objective running scrimishes on places like Alaska, Hawaii, New Zeland, Aus., and Brazil.

Taking these places under a scrimish mindset means you are trying to defelect US troops from going to Europe.  They will take back those territories and some times very quickly.  Don’t take them with the intention of holding them because you have far more to loose in this situation because you have to import the fight.