Discussing AARE

[axis_roll]

@Cmdr:

I dunno.  With Russian Rail you can easily see 30 infantry, 15 tanks flying back and forth between Karelia and Caucasus making any attack on either all but impossible with Germany, especially if England and America are firing off economic attacks with heavy bombers and rockets or just bombarding the heck out of Europe with stacks of destroyers.

Japan is not doing her job right then if Russia can move at will and not have to worry about the moscow/caucasus back door pressure.

Remember Japan has been ignored… they have to play so that they CAN NOT be ignored.

[tekkyy]

@axis_roll:

One way to minimize this is to give up western and just take it back every turn with an inf or two.  Germany still gets the money.

Western Europe is the standard game right?

The uber destroyer offshore bombardment strategy involves hitting Germany, Eastern Europe or whatever the stack happens to be right?

Turn 5 US might have 20 destroyers.
Is that 10 infantry?

[axis_roll]

@tekkyy:

@axis_roll:

One way to minimize this is to give up western and just take it back every turn with an inf or two.  Germany still gets the money.

Western Europe is the standard game right?

The uber destroyer offshore bombardment strategy involves hitting Germany, Eastern Europe or whatever the stack happens to be right?

Turn 5 US might have 20 destroyers.
Is that 10 infantry?

Even at a reasonable assumption of 4 DD’s every turns (no respecting Japanese player would let USA have more than 35-37 / turn), that’s 4 turns to get to 20+ ( I know they start with 2), PLUS it’s 3 turns to get to SZ5.

I would HOPE Japan can get after Moscow/Caucasus by the 7th round.

Plus if I EVER see this strat again I would do something (Read NA selection) totally different that would put the huge screws to this whole game plan.

[Jennifer]

Love to hear what that is, Axis.  Mainly cause I need something in my arsenal to work against it.

However, I think you are discounting the damage done by a lot.

In 5 Rounds America can have 6 DDs Round 1, +4 DDs Round 2, + 3 DDs Round 3 + 3 DD’s Round 4 + 3 DD’s Round 5 for a total of 19 DDs, that’s assuming no Naval Industry advantage and using the “change” to buy the combined arms technology. (16 IPC if you have tech investment, max 24 if you do not, maybe less if England also has it before you get it, so 12-18 IPC with shared tech)

That’s 20 Destroyers at 3, 1 Battleship at 4.  Granted, 6 of them are not yet in range ON turn 5 for use, so that’s 14@3 1@4 hitting the stacks in Europe and definitely enough to keep your fleet separate.  (What player is sending 6 fighters and a bomber after 14 destroyers with or without transports and battleships!?!?!)

That’s just from America!  So figure you lose 8 infantry with that somewhere in Europe.  -24 IPC for the cost of 3 IPC (since you have to land SOMETHING to use bombard, right?)

If England’s doing it too, you might expect 4 destroyers on round 1 (Royal Navy + 3 Destroyers) and 2 each additional round with change, again, going to combined arms technology.  So on round 5 you’d have a total of 1 battleship + 12 destroyers (10 in range to bombard ON England’s 5th round.)  That’s another 6 infantry from your stack killed for another -18 IPC at the cost of 3 IPC.

So far, Germany’s been hit for 42 IPC in damage and the allies have lost 6 IPC in damage.

What kind of pressure will Germany be able to sustain at that rate on Russia?  How much more pressure can Russia bring to bear on Japan?

And, if you get really wicked, who says the allies won’t add SBRs with their two bombers until they are knocked out of the skies with AA Fire?  That’s another 7 IPC damage per round on average between the two nations (3.5 from England, 3.5 from America.)  Now Germany’s down 49 IPC and that’s not including units lost trading with Russia who’s flying infantry and tanks around with Russian Rail to prevent the fall of it’s Victory Cities.

---

I’m not being sarcastic.  I really, REALLY want to know what the Axis response is!  I’ve tried Wolfpacks and then going heavy navy, but that drags even more money away preventing me from stopping Russia and thus the Russians get up to E. Europe on a consistent basis.

[axis_roll]

IMHO, if UK does the same, they shouldn’t go all out or that’s a problem.  Germany can drop a sub and reduce UK’s ability to economically hurt Germany to only $8 in Germany/EEU.

[Jennifer]

That is an idea, just putting 1 submarine in SZ 5 would stop England’s bombardments, but not America’s.

[axis_roll]

@Cmdr:

That is an idea, just putting 1 submarine in SZ 5 would stop England’s bombardments, but not America’s.

yes, that’s what I said, slows UK DD’s… if they were to fail to detect, US could be stopped too… and perhaps for only $7 if you take wolfpacks.

[Jennifer]

Yea, but common, what are the odds that 2 fighters + 10 destroyers are going to NOT detect a submarine?  That’s akin to attacking Moscow and hoping that the AA Gun misses all 24 shots at your fighters and 3 shots at your bombers.  It could happen, but it’s not likely.

So that stops England, but not America.  Which would be fine, since technically the British COULD move the destroyers out of SZ 5 and use them to bombard somewhere else if they have an uncontested sea zone to load and unload their transports into.  Just leave one destroyer and the fighters behind to kill the submarine.

Though, it is cheaper then losing 10 infantry to bombardment, I don’t think it will be enough, really.

[axis_roll]

I still do not agree that DD’s are the uber strat.

I will have to be persuaded via a game.

And now I know what to look for and will see it coming and will react accordingly early on to make a large difference.

[trihero]

One way to minimize this is to give up western and just take it back every turn with an inf or two.  Germany still gets the money.

But Germany gives up a VC. No longer is taking either Caucasus/Karelia good enough any more.

While I don’t necessarily believe that mass destroyers is always the best idea, I at least think it should be a major tech, because what it is essentially is buying you is unlimited economic damage potential. This is in huge contrast to convoy raiding/SBR which are capped at their territory value, but it’s more than possible for a large stack of dds to do well over the territory’s cap. I understand that dds cost more, but you are paying for the potential for unlimited economic damage, and that means a lot.

I do agree with Axis_Roll that massing dds with UK isn’t the best idea due to German sub blocking, but for the US it’s probably a much better idea than straight shucking to Europe. Shucking to Europe can easily be cut down to a bunch of wimpy inf if Japan convoy raids W. US, but if you have a pile of dds before Japan can get the US down they can continually deal a lot of damage. And you can slowly ramp up the damage with 1-2 dds every turn, using the rest for defensive land purchase.

And now I know what to look for and will see it coming and will react accordingly early on to make a large difference.

Could you give us the general gist of what you would do without giving away all your secrets?  :lol:

[axis_roll]

@Bean:

One way to minimize this is to give up western and just take it back every turn with an inf or two.  Germany still gets the money.

But Germany gives up a VC. No longer is taking either Caucasus/Karelia good enough any more.

I don’t want to give away ALL my secrets until I beat you in our game :)

@Bean:

And now I know what to look for and will see it coming and will react accordingly early on to make a large difference.

Could you give us the general gist of what you would do without giving away all your secrets?  :lol:

Well a US buy of 4 DD’s turn 1 for the atlantic is kinda of a tip off, especially in conjunction with Russian Rail.

I gave Jen my biggest Key, so whe’ll use it against her next opponent.
Don’t all rush and play her now……

[axis_roll]

Bean,

Speaking of games, when is UK4 coming?

[trihero]

Might be today or Friday, I commented in our thread my current game situation.

[Jennifer]

Yea, I got an idea…not sure if it’ll work.  But it’s an idea.