Discussing AARE

[Jennifer]

I don’t think it’s unstoppable either.  That’s why I’m trying the German submarine strategy to counter.  Submarines are cheaper and deadlier. :P  (German submarines can attack at 4 or less, making them, in effect, really cheap, one hit battleships under the water.)

But I don’t know how fiscally sound that strategy is.

Speaking of which, the SAME strategy would work in AAR.  Destroyer Bombard did not change from AAR to AARe, you just got more goodies with the technology.

[axis_roll]

@Cmdr:

Speaking of which, the SAME strategy would work in AAR.  Destroyer Bombard did not change from AAR to AARe, you just got more goodies with the technology.

In Revised, you don’t get DD’s that cost only $9 (naval advantage) and a free inf (Pac Div) to help protect your back side against Japan.

summarizing, it’s a lot EASIER to implement this in Enhanced.

[axis_roll]

@Bean:

I don’t think it’s unstoppable either. I just raise the bid to counter it  :mrgreen:

actually I know I would choose a different second Japanese NA if I saw this once again.

You might have caught me having to run a less than efficient Axis strategy since I haven’t seen this version of the DD offshore strat.

I still need to think a bit abot this, looking at a map.  I don’t have access to one right now.

[trihero]

I trust you will find a way. After all, you’re still riding on some hot round 1 dice, which could easily make up for the surprise factor.

[axis_roll]

@Bean:

I trust you will find a way. After all, you’re still riding on some hot round 1 dice, which could easily make up for the surprise factor.

True dat… without the dice, I would have to alter what I just did with Germany.

Not that it was ground breaking or game winning, but my point was to agree with you that my hot dice are keeping me in this, as you say, overcoming the surprise factor

[trihero]

Also just curious Axis Roll, what do you think is the best method of dealing with a lot of German subs in the waters? Obviously the UK alone will take too long to deal with it, which just about forces the US to put some heavy investment into the Atlantic early on.

And also, how does one fight effectively on two fronts? I’ve read a lot of things about how AARE is global, but it seems to me that splitting actions as the Allies is just as bad as in AAR, because each Axis power appears to be more able than ever to deal with a half-ass effort. Also I read something about naval action in every AARE game in the Pacific, but it seems detrimental to the US to put anything there unless it plans on winning.

[Jennifer]

Think you should preface that with a lot of German submarines with Wolf Packs and Super Submarines (making them VERY hard to detect and giving them LARGE attack bonuses.)

[trihero]

Yea I love wolfpacks. Makes a HUMONGOUS difference from AAR subs - cost $7, basically attack on 3, can’t be hit alone by air, muwahahahaha.  :-P

[Jennifer]

And if you get Super Subs, they attack on 4.  Wish those bonuses applied to defense though.  Then Wolfpacks would be as broken as Russian Rail.

[axis_roll]

@Bean:

Also just curious Axis Roll, what do you think is the best method of dealing with a lot of German subs in the waters? Obviously the UK alone will take too long to deal with it, which just about forces the US to put some heavy investment into the Atlantic early on.

You don’t necessarioly need DDs to go after subs.  I’ve always been of the mind set that subs are effective sub killers in Enhanced.
Also, Russia should be pushing hard on those less-than-maximum German ground units.

Radar is certainly a very effective counter to the Wolf pack Germany strategy.

@Bean:

And also, how does one fight effectively on two fronts? I’ve read a lot of things about how AARE is global, but it seems to me that splitting actions as the Allies is just as bad as in AAR, because each Axis power appears to be more able than ever to deal with a half-a** effort. Also I read something about naval action in every AARE game in the Pacific, but it seems detrimental to the US to put anything there unless it plans on winning.

The allies primary early game goal is to keep playing.  They may need to make some costly sacrifices to avoid a quick 10 VC axis grab.  However, the Axis can play a longer game effectively too.  The key for the allies is to recognize the Axis intentions.  Are they goign for a quick game or setting up for a longer one.

There are 6 VCs within ‘easy’ reach for Japan, but Germany really has only 5 that are within ‘easy reach’, Moscow or London are much harder to attain.  These facts alone point out the importance of some sort of allied support in the pacific… wether that’s to HOLD a VC or to take it back (READ USA to the rescue)

Cousin_Joe (Enhanced creator) once gave me some excellent advice about revised that speak to it’s global characteristics.  You focus on a theatre and win that first, winning several theatres will win you the war.  So US could assist in the battle of the atlantic while building enough fleet to hold the IJN at bay, and then return their main focus on the Pacific once UK has built enough navy to control the atlantic.

[Jennifer]

I don’t understand how Radar NA is an effective Submarine Counter.

The only thing I can think of is the reduction in price of Combined Arms, but then it is Combined Arms that helps you kill submarines, NOT Radar.

Anyway, Sub on Sub is good, but slow.  Subs+Destroyer on Subs is good however.  But then, what does England and America do with the extra submarines?

[axis_roll]

@Cmdr:

I don’t understand how Radar NA is an effective Submarine Counter.

The only thing I can think of is the reduction in price of Combined Arms, but then it is Combined Arms that helps you kill submarines, NOT Radar.

Why else would you take radar?
I guess for Jet power, but the cheap combined arms REALLY helps UK to win the batttle of the Atlantic.

You get better sub detection with your DDs, and a floating AA gun in your BB, that… oh, shoots at a 2 with Radar.  tough for the German 1-2 punch (sub/planes) to sink that UK fleet.

And then once you’ve removed the sub threat, you can do offshores.

[Jennifer]

And to shoot down V2 rockets 33% of the time, and to assist in defending Australia, and for the free AA Gun to use with Rockets, etc.

[trihero]

So US could assist in the battle of the atlantic while building enough fleet to hold the IJN at bay, and then return their main focus on the Pacific once UK has built enough navy to control the atlantic.

Curiously, that doesn’t seem a whole lot different than the way some players to it in AAR. For instance, Darth Maximus is a fan of first using the US to control the Atlantic/Atlantic, then switching to a massive Pacific Navy in AAR. I agree it can be more rewarding in AARE due to the victory cities the Allies can reclaim in the Pacific as well as convoy raiding Japan, but I think AARE is still very AAR in the core sense that you do have to focus on winning one theater before moving on to the next, it’s not global in the sense that you can split your efforts down the middle and expect to win.

And with the comment on subs being good sub killers, I agree that they are, but that I have to echo Jen’s comment that what are you going to use all those subs for after you’re done killing Germany’s subs? They’re a very long way from Japan, and they won’t do a thing to Germany. I think some combination of destroyers/fighters is best to wipe out Germany’s navy because they do have some fairly immediate use after done with the navy, they are “dual use” units. Subs are somewhat dual use in the sense that they can convoy raid, but talking about Allied subs in the Atlantic and they’re not so dual use.

[axis_roll]

@Bean:

Curiously, that doesn’t seem a whole lot different than the way some players to it in AAR. For instance, Darth Maximus is a fan of first using the US to control the Atlantic/Atlantic, then switching to a massive Pacific Navy in AAR. I agree it can be more rewarding in AARE due to the victory cities the Allies can reclaim in the Pacific as well as convoy raiding Japan, but I think AARE is still very AAR in the core sense that you do have to focus on winning one theater before moving on to the next, it’s not global in the sense that you can split your efforts down the middle and expect to win.

Well if Japan is controlling the pacific AND Germany is forcing the issue in the Atlantic, I would get the atlantic under control first as you have help to do that.  USA can go toe-to-toe with Japan on their own if the atlantic doesn’t need US assitance.

In the absence of these extremes, it is BEST if USA does go evenly on both coasts, IMHO.  Delaying would allow a Japan trying to do both asia mainland push AND control the Pacific time to accomplish both objectives.  Going only against Japan reduces a key allied advantage in the atlantic: D-Day.  The allies may need to grab that one VC to stave off an Axis victory.

[Jennifer]

A simple rule stating that any US State that falls to Japan without being immediately liberated by America becomes a default victory for the Axis would force the game into two theaters.

(State, as in not China or Sinkiang or Brazil.  I’m thinking Hawaii or Alaska here really, but W. USA would be even worse public relations wise.)

American people are wusses, they don’t want to be hurt.  They’da surrendered if California or Hawaii was invaded. (Alaska was, but common, it was the Aleutians, not Juno or Anchorage or something!)

[axis_roll]

@Cmdr:

A simple rule stating that any US State that falls to Japan without being immediately liberated by America becomes a default victory for the Axis would force the game into two theaters.

one territory and the Axis wins?

Sorry that won’t work
Japan can easily take and hold hawaii J2

there’s plenty of reason to have to fight in the Pacific.
A wisely played Germany as well as an expansive Japan can prove that the Allies have erred by ignoring the pacific.

It’s not that hard to do.

[Jennifer]

You don’t think America can build enough to liberate Hawaii by round 2?

I mean, the best Enhanced Games i’ve had with the allies was ignoring the pacific and letting japan take Hawaii, Australia and India because all I have to do is stop Germany from getting Karelia or Caucasus and that’s actually very easy with some of the exploits.

[axis_roll]

@Cmdr:

You don’t think America can build enough to liberate Hawaii by round 2?

No, I think Japan can put too much on hawaii WITH so much naval power that USA could not take out both on US2.

@Cmdr:

I mean, the best Enhanced Games i’ve had with the allies was ignoring the pacific and letting japan take Hawaii, Australia and India because all I have to do is stop Germany from getting Karelia or Caucasus and that’s actually very easy with some of the exploits.

Germany is not being played correctly then.  They may need some Japanese assistance to help them take and hold the 4th VC, but it most certainly can be done.

[Jennifer]

I dunno.  With Russian Rail you can easily see 30 infantry, 15 tanks flying back and forth between Karelia and Caucasus making any attack on either all but impossible with Germany, especially if England and America are firing off economic attacks with heavy bombers and rockets or just bombarding the heck out of Europe with stacks of destroyers.