Another look at the SAF IC

[Jennifer]

Anyone think about a German build of another transport in SZ 14?  Dumping 4 ground units into Africa seems like a lot, but Africa is also worth 4 ground units in value AND if you can get England and America to focus on Africa, who’s protecting Russia?

[trihero]

Anyone think about a German build of another transport in SZ 14?  Dumping 4 ground units into Africa seems like a lot, but Africa is also worth 4 ground units in value AND if you can get England and America to focus on Africa, who’s protecting Russia?

That’s something almost everyone has thought about, but it is difficult, because you have to build protection for it or keep your bb/tran in that seazone that turn. That means you’re probably not offloading into Libya unless you want to get chewed up by the defense there or the Allied units in Algeria. Plus, you’re still going to attacked by 3 figs 1 bom from the US at some point, and the extra doesn’t help against that. It just siphons more units from Europe.

Obviously it will have bugs that need to be worked out in real games. I’ll never say that any strategy is foolproof, but I’m nearly convinced that an SAF IC is not only possible but can be very helpful in a KJF if not also in KGF.

Man strategies really do come full cycle, don’t they? Peter Morrison’s movies posted over two years ago advocate double ICs; one in UoSA and one in India to contest both Asia and Africa. He also advocated running away with the Baltic fleet. Interesting how old ideas get reincarnated like this.

[Jennifer]

Yea, because strategies come around to defeat the new “wisdom”.

Everyone said KJF was impossible, but that’s hardly been the case.  Hard, but not impossible.

Everyone said Russia and half of England couldn’t box Germany in alone, but that’s almost easy now.

Everyone said Africa was hopeless for the Allies.

Everyone said Japan should reinforce Germany in the med to keep Africa

Everyone has been wrong at one point or another.

[trihero]

Everyone said KJF was impossible, but that’s hardly been the case.  Hard, but not impossible.

You continue to create strawmen. No one said it was impossible, just not optimal given normal dice.

Everyone said Russia and half of England couldn’t box Germany in alone, but that’s almost easy now.

You still can’t. You clearly haven’t shown that yet.

Everyone said Africa was hopeless for the Allies.

Oh really, is that why the Axis gets a bid?

Everyone said Japan should reinforce Germany in the med to keep Africa

That’s certainly one way to do it.

Everyone has been wrong at one point or another.

Of course, but that’s a pretty useless statement, that would be like saying the sun is hot. Why not give it some relevance, such as the sun is x degrees but due to x distance and the atmosphere we can manage to survive?

Here is relevance: some people are less wrong than others, and that’s how the same people continue to get wins.

[Lucifer]

@Cmdr:

Everyone said Africa was hopeless for the Allies.

Everyone has been wrong at one point or another.

How many times do people need to play revised before they understand that Afr belongs to allies, usually?
That is if allies want it.

And the KJF, Jen, I’m gonna write a letter to the American Psychiatric Association  (APA)
in order to get the KJF acknowledged as a decease,
so KJF will be listed as a behavioral disorder in the DSM V, and the ICD-11.  :roll:

[Nix]

do it and attack the german med fleet with 1 fig, 1 bmb.

Then 70*% of the cases at least the trn sinks and in 46% of cases both trn/bb are killed.

Harder for germany to put more people in africa, at the least he´s delayed for 1 turn.

If UK and US moves jointly to Algeria they can kill the bb and any ship germany buys as a replacement.

[Jennifer]

This isn’t a thread about the validity of KJF.  Needless to say, I’m currently running 67% wins 33% losses in KJF with two apparent wins on the horizon, barring abnormal dice.

Anyway, back to the TOPIC, I don’t really see S. Africa Complex being very useful in KJF.  I see it very useful in KGF though.  And I could see how it would help box in Germany in a KJF situation, I’ve just never actually needed it to beat Germany into a box with just England and Russia.

Germany is quite easily contained with a few artillery purchases by Russia and some fighters from England.

[trihero]

Needless to say, I’m currently running 67% wins 33% losses in KJF with two apparent wins on the horizon, barring abnormal dice.

Win rate alone doesn’t validate the strategy. Your victory over me hasn’t even begun to dent my view on the strategy. I simply made a mistake in exposing the capital which could have easily been avoided, and you made a mistake in exposing Caucasus, but the difference is that if we both avoided those errors, that Japan is extremely tough to crack and has lots of income while Russia was boxed in on both sides with low income. I just didn’t see the possibility of the KJF.

[Lucifer]

@Cmdr:

Germany is quite easily contained with a few artillery purchases by Russia and some fighters from England.

Germany contained without US?
Play me Jennifer, plz  :-P

[Jennifer]

@Lucifer:

@Cmdr:

Germany is quite easily contained with a few artillery purchases by Russia and some fighters from England.

Germany contained without US?
Play me Jennifer, plz  :-P

It’s not so hard to imagine.  Germany earns 40 IPC.  Russia + England earn 54 IPC.  Japan earns 30 IPC.  America earns 42 IPC.  In both cases, the axis start out with a -15 IPC detriment.  From there it’s just a matter of positioning yourself so Germany cannot break out anywhere.

Though I might consider a KJF with the IC in S. Africa.  Never even tried that one!

[axis_roll]

If I saw a SAF IC UK1 as the axis, I would pretty much feint africa and use the med fleet to push after Russia underneath.  The axis should ignore this investment by focusing on Russia exclusively as fast as possible.  I also would most certainly look to destroy any allied atlantic transports if I ever could.

I think the Germany trying to fight/take africa is like power on power and unless this was Russia where the axis can do a 2 on 1, that is a losing proposition.

So in short, Africa with a UK SAF IC, I’d fake interest, pull out after UK has invested some money and whallop Russia.

[Jennifer]

The trick, of course, being that you have to be able to pull out.

If there’s significant threat to Africa, you may not have anything TOO pull out, ya know?

[axis_roll]

@Cmdr:

The trick, of course, being that you have to be able to pull out.

If there’s significant threat to Africa, you may not have anything TOO pull out, ya know?

stack up on AES with 4-6 units and ftrs… then bail.

good thing wuold be to add another tpt sz14 on G2 if possible, really looking like you’re gonna put up a fight… move sz15 on G3, then empty G4 onward…

Hello Ukraine

[Jennifer]

That could work, Axis, if you move that fleet to take India, Australia, New Zealand and Madagascar for Germany.

Darth likes to do that with Germany anyway, I love to get away with it as well!

[Lucifer]

I played a multi player game not very long ago, (somewhat decent players) where G took a big part of Afr, Madagascar, Australia,
N.Z., and Hawaii !! Don’t think they made it to Alaska…  :lol:
Germany didn’t win the game though  :-)

[Jennifer]

Trying this out in an AARe game right now. I’ll report back my findings.

[jsp4563]

@Cmdr:

Trying this out in an AARe game right now. I’ll report back my findings.

Can you link the thread, i’d like to take a look.

[Jennifer]

@Emperor:

@Cmdr:

Trying this out in an AARe game right now. I’ll report back my findings.

Can you link the thread, i’d like to take a look.

AAMC Game 17841

Dunno if you can look at them if you are not participating in them though. :(

Anyway, this may work really well in AARe or AAR with National Advantages because it’s Colonial Garrison, not a purchased Industrial Complex.

And, just as a side note, I think National Advantages are designed to make KJF the easiest method.  Almost all of the Allied National Advantages in LHTR 1.3 and 2.0 seem geared toward making Japan’s life a living hell.

Non-Aggression Treaty (duh)
Russian Railway (speedy assaults on Japanese forces in the east)
Colonial Garrison (Indian IC with immediate addition of infantry, 2 armor on UK 1)
Radar (duh, 2 or less in India, that isn’t falling soon!)
Fast Carriers (Think SZ 61 is safe?  Think again!)
Marines (naval attacks at 2 or less with infantry only are cheap and effective)
Chinese Divisions (duh)
Mideast Oil (Move England’s fighters, bomber to India fast)
Enigma Decoded (Save a fighter and armor to defend in India)
Mobile Industry (Move an IC to Novo, now you are building right on top of Japan)
Russian Winter (Coupled with Non-Aggression can force Japan to not attack for a round)
Joint Strike (Good for Naval hitting of Japanese fleet by both American and British fleets)
Island Bases (Again, duh, the Pacific is where most of the islands are anyway!)

Granted, a lot of those can be used effectively against Germany as well, but KGF is pretty standard online, and these just make KJF almost irresistible.

[trihero]

Only problem is if Germany gets U-boats, you can forget about KJF.

[jsp4563]

Yes, I find the Reinforced Carrier a boon to a KJF strategy.