kyle47

kyle47 · Sep 14, 2023, 9:46 PM

I have revisited a G2 Barbarossa, and have liked it better so far than Sealion, or a Sealion feint with a G3 Barbarossa.

The theory: Germany can leverage their significant material advantage against the U.S.S.R. and make steady gains through the Soviet Union, significantly limiting - if not outright eliminating -the potential for a counter attack. This relentless movement forces the Allies to rush D-day, or make difficult decisions about what city to defend, Calcutta (from Japan) or Moscow (from Germany), from the U.K.s position in the Middle East. If either one falls, the Axis almost certainly win.

The Pros: A strong, quite greedy, German expansion into the U.S.S.R., setting up a G5 attack on Moscow. This is early enough that the infantry in Buryatia cannot reach Moscow in time to defend. At best, they will be available for a counter from Samara or Vologda. The U.S.S.R. is prevented from collecting most, if not all bonuses, while Germany can potentially get quite a few early.

The Cons: This allows Taranto, and Middle Earth play by the U.K. leaving a weak Italy. Likely turtling on Southern Italy to prevent early capture by the U.S. It almost completely abandons the Mediterranean to the Allies by round 3. Not likely to have a German land unit in Egypt. This is the one German bonus that falls to the wayside, but is often irrelevant by G4/5 anyway.

How I do it:
G1: Purchase 6 mech, and 1 tank
Conduct obligatory naval combat with aircraft and navy in the Atlantic.
Take France, but leave Normandy and Southern France. I take France with as little force as possible. Only with the local units, as other units will be needed on the front lines for Barbarossa next turn (there are three tanks in Holland and four mech in West Germany that can be used in this attack, as they can catch up to the German lines in time for the G5 of Moscow). Take Yugoslavia. Non Combat Bulgaria and Finland. Non combat aircraft to Holland and West Germany. Non combat 11 German infantry to Poland with the bulk of your forces.

G2: You have options here for the Purchase. You should have 68 IPCs from bonuses, income and the French. A super aggressive play would be a destroyer for West Germany (defend from U.S.S.R. Sub and allow air scramble to see and hit), and 10 tanks for Germany. There is also a case to be made for a destroyer, max mech infantry for the German factory, and fill out the rest of your purchase with Infantry for France and West Germany. Personally I like the tanks…
Combat: Remaining Infantry and Artillery forces in France can clean up Normandy. Italy can clean up Southern France. Declare war on the U.S.S.R. and attack Baltic States, East Poland and Bessarabia. If the U.S.S.R. has managed to make a dead zone out of any of these, skip it, and ensure that your own territory will hold. Just make sure the bulk of your units are together, ball of death style. It isn’t important which direction you go (north or south) as long as you make progress toward Moscow every turn. Non-Combat: get aircraft to safety and reinforce your lines as needed.

The remaining turns playout similarly to these, with the exception of a major shift in purchasing. You can purchase addition mech infantry to join the German front on turn 3, however any purchase after G2 won’t reach Moscow for G5. These would be clean up units that can capture abandoned or weak territory, and can buff the German lines if the U.K. decides to save Moscow over Calcutta. The shift is largely to defensive infantry that slow down the early American attacks and allow you to potentially finish off Moscow. You can sprinkle in specific counter attack units as you see fit.

BUT what if the U.K. saves Moscow you might ask? Well, lucky for you, that serious material advantage you leveraged attacking Moscow early has also gutted its income and put it into your pockets. They should be quite weak economically by G5, and the U.K. defense won’t hold against some tanks from the captured factories in Ukraine and Novgorod. Additionally, Japan should be piling on some serious pressure in the Pacific by now, and Calcutta will look quite weak. The U.K. can’t save both, and the U.S. can’t punish Germany or Japan in time (outside of poor axis play) to stop either attack from continuing. The Axis really only need one of the cities to win the game, and will likely take both eventually.

Any obvious counters I’m missing? Questions? Does anyone else do this?

My group hasn’t beat this yet, but they can stop G3/J1s and the like with strong Middle Earth U.K. play and an American D-Day.

kyle47 · Feb 5, 2022, 3:13 AM

So, my room-mate and I play Classic sometimes. We use the rule variation where the U.S.S.R. cannot attack first turn, in an attempt to balance the game a bit for the Axis (Since the U.S.S.R. could take out a significant amount of Axis material T1, especially Germany).

HOWEVER, he can’t beat me. I utilize turn one to place everything (except my tanks which go to Moscow, the 4 Infantry on Moscow which move to the Caucuses to prevent a blitz, and the troops in the East which move to Evenki and harass Japan) onto Karelia. The purchase of 8 Infantry is also dropped on Karelia (Final count is 18-ish Infantry and 2 fighters).

There appears to be three possible responses, none of them good, for the Germans.

An all in, single round strafe on Turn 1 in hopes of annihilating the Soviet infantry, and preventing a counter attack. However, this only has the affect of the U.S.S.R. wiping out the German infantry (about 10) on casualty rolls. Which is devastating to the German IPC count, and their ability to sustain attacks on subsequent turns.
Try to hold Eastern Europe and wait to Strafe until Turn 2. Ideally, you bait the Soviets into an attack. Otherwise, the numbers on Karelia grow by at least 8 and possibly another tank.
An all out attack Turn 1 that the U.S.S.R. wins on average rolls. It leaves both powers crippled, and gambles that the Germans can hold off the U.K. This also creates the possibility that the Americans can forgo a D-Day strategy (Or delay for a turn or 2) and instead focus on a fleet to destroy Japan’s navy, and hamper transport movements.

Am I missing something? My room-mate is tired of losing. :)

(When we switch sides, I usually strafe, and try to bait the U.S.S.R. into ill advised attacks. It usually works, but even with the rule change, the game does not seem more balanced.)

kyle47 · Sep 15, 2023, 9:47 PM

@MarshmallowofWar ah I see, that would make a weak Europe. However my G3, G4, and G5 purchases are almost entirely infantry in order to defend Europe. Depending on the amount of reinforcement Moscow gets from the British, Germany may opt for a few tanks out of Ukraine/Novgorod. Ukraine is preferable because of it’s position, but mech units of any kind can be helpful out of Novgorod at this point.

I am also assuming a Middle Earth style British player (factory in Persia, naval base, 2-1 alternating transport shuck from South Africa) and haven’t play tested this against a U.S./U.K. D-day. That would be an interesting stress test, since you are committed to the G2 post purchase. I think the U.S.S.R. and Calcutta would ultimately be more vulnerable in the D-day scenario… but I’m biased.

Appreciate the feedback!

kyle47 · Feb 5, 2022, 4:14 AM

@andrewaagamer No Bid. That answers the balance piece of this. LOL.

Is 6-8 really enough? Where does that type of bid usually go?

I can usually still win as no bid axis, but I’m not sure everyone I play stacks Karelia as much as I do.

kyle47 · Sep 21, 2023, 1:02 AM

@SuperbattleshipYamato said in Revisiting G2 Barbarossa:

@Radar

The Soviets are losing at least 10 IPCs (maybe 15) unless Germany does the Napoleon thing and march in one column at Moscow.

As mentioned, without a bid the Soviets are not holding any original Axis territories.

G2 looks surprisingly Napoleonic. At least at first…

kyle47 · Sep 21, 2023, 12:53 AM

@AndrewAAGamer Thanks! We will have to incorporate an OOB bid for the Allies into the setup. I’ll try a G2, see how it goes.

kyle47 · Sep 21, 2023, 12:30 AM

@Radar said in Revisiting G2 Barbarossa:

@AndrewAAGamer Fair enough, but with a bid of up to 60, that’s theoretically up to 20 extra Russians if that is your goal, and there are ove 20 spaces to put a Russian infantry that will return to Moscow by turn 4 (Or shoot at German in defense on the way). But on a G3 attack, that’s up to 20 extra Russians as a bid, and up to 10 extra bought every turn.

I’m not trying to be rude or contrarian, would you please tell me the piece I’m missing?

What is it about G3 that gives the German the advantage over the extra Russians purchased in Moscow?

Based on his assumptions about the subsequent attacks and income bases. Strategic bombing, etc. There are a myriad of things that could change the overall numbers, favoring a G6. I tend to think that time is an advantage for the Allies, but with a bid, that could change dramatically.

kyle47 · Sep 21, 2023, 12:27 AM

@AndrewAAGamer said in Revisiting G2 Barbarossa:

If Russia is taking Finland, let alone Norway, than the Axis player is not playing properly. Russia should never get the $3 NO bonus for any territory in Europe. That is why they usually send troops to the Middle East to get the NO down there.

If you are playing with no Bid then really anything you are experiencing is irrelevant. The Bid should be in the 50-60 range.

We are just playing friendly home games, no bids. Although, we have considered implementing bids in the future, we have yet to do so. I think my play group would LOVE that type of bid. They are getting tired of losing ;)

kyle47 · Sep 21, 2023, 12:23 AM

@TheVeteran said in Revisiting G2 Barbarossa:

@kyle47 here’s your issue max attack Vs max defense for a G5 assault doesn’t capture Moscow. A G6 attack on Moscow is a much better plan which gets more German units to Moscow than soviet .

Great! I’m not sure how you account for the 6 infantry from Buryatia, but ok. If you have better odds G6, take the better odds. The idea is to exert pressure on Calcutta and Moscow at the same time. Not that Moscow must fall G5.

Honestly, if all you did was hold the line from Archangel to Caucasus, you’re in great shape already.

kyle47 · Sep 21, 2023, 12:19 AM

@SuperbattleshipYamato said in Revisiting G2 Barbarossa:

@kyle47

Curious strategy. I might try it.

Do you think it would work if the Italian and Japanese players are ineffective?

As in, no serious Japanese pressure and KGF?

I’ve been trying a game on TripleA (low luck) where all the Allies are Hard AI and Japan and Italy are Fast AI (inferior), while I play as Germany.

So I need to carry the Axis, and that requires a strategy that doesn’t heavily depend on Italy or Japan.

This strategy doesn’t require Italy, but how much does it not require Japan? Thank you!

The plan is held up by the idea that Japan and Germany are exerting pressure around the same time, on two pivotal victory cities. Usually around round 5/6. Italy is likely not to have much to do, but that’s mostly because of how Germany uses their troops, which leaves the Med vulnerable.

kyle47 · Sep 15, 2023, 9:47 PM

@MarshmallowofWar ah I see, that would make a weak Europe. However my G3, G4, and G5 purchases are almost entirely infantry in order to defend Europe. Depending on the amount of reinforcement Moscow gets from the British, Germany may opt for a few tanks out of Ukraine/Novgorod. Ukraine is preferable because of it’s position, but mech units of any kind can be helpful out of Novgorod at this point.

I am also assuming a Middle Earth style British player (factory in Persia, naval base, 2-1 alternating transport shuck from South Africa) and haven’t play tested this against a U.S./U.K. D-day. That would be an interesting stress test, since you are committed to the G2 post purchase. I think the U.S.S.R. and Calcutta would ultimately be more vulnerable in the D-day scenario… but I’m biased.

Appreciate the feedback!

kyle47 · Sep 15, 2023, 8:58 PM

@mainah Yes, that could totally change the map. My group can’t beat me when I play the Allies without one, so I don’t get bids. :)

kyle47 · Sep 15, 2023, 8:44 PM

@mainah we do not, and this could swing some key odds in key battles. I would re-evaluate depending on where the Allies use the bid. Is 18-22 still the average bid size?

kyle47 · Sep 15, 2023, 8:41 PM

@MarshmallowofWar I actually started conducting this attack because the Allies were more able to slow a G3. We found it was often petering out, falling victim to Soviet counter attack. The G2 slimmed some of that early Soviet income and material enough, that the opportunities for counter attack got cut down to almost nothing. My concerns were much like your own, but after trying it (and I am not known for being lucky with the dice), the U.S.S.R. crumbled, and the income swing gave me the resources to grind down every U.S. landing.

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