@Private:
Keep counting AB. There is no maximum. :-)
Thank you.
6 IPC Tanks and other unit costs
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@Brain:
Leave the tanks at 5, Allow mech inf to transport 1 artillery of 1 infantry with it. This would be good.
That is another acceptable fix.
The central problem is that Mechanized Infantry being a 1-2-2-4 unit makes it near strictly weaker than the 3-3-2-5 Tank, but the Tank is already well balanced with everything else. The solution is to make the Mechanized Infantry balanced. If it turns out that the superior movement is more powerful, then even then, the Tank only needs a marginal decrease.
Ways to improve M-Infantry
M-Infantry is a 1-2-2-4 unit that can transport 1 Infantry with it when it moves two.
M-Infantry is a 1-2-2-4 unit that receives +1 from Artillery
M-Infantry is a 1-2-2-4 unit that can be transported like an Infantry could (hence you could transport a M-Infantry and Tank)Ways to marginally weaken Tanks
Tanks are now a 3-3-2-6 unit
Tanks are now a 3-2-2-5 unit
Tanks are either one of the above but receive +1 when working with a Dive Bomber -
One thing I though of with tanks that would work. Make them 3/2 for 5, BUT have them get +1 to defense from inf. It makes logical sense as armor had a terrible time defending without inf support, and would balance out the cost for Larry.
As far as making strat bombers desireable, first off there cost should be 10, there is absolutely no reason for them to cost more than a fighter when they have worse stats! (3-3 vs 3-4). Yes I know they are a 4 on the attack with some other units, but that still gives them the same points as a fighter. Also, how would people feel if regular bombers were no longer allowed to attack sea units. This makes some sense historically, and I feel would help make the ocean a little more interesting.
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Interesting, that would mean that Tanks on the tip of the spear with M-Infantry would likely be exposed and fragile, but Tanks within the main force don’t suffer such. Giving M-Infantry the Artillery bonus gives them a similar reward for being within the main force.
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This way the core of your forces would remain inf with some art, while you would use your armor and M inf to rapidly support where needed. Atleast for G/R front.
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How about this:
Fighter-bombers and Fighters cost the same. Fighter-bombers are attack 4, defend 2 (I’m guessing 3 is a little high). Fighters are attack 3, defend 4. No restrictions on Fighter-bombers, like tanks or other fighters having to participate in the attack. Fighter-bombers can be used on Carriers just the same as Fighters.
I’m just throwing this out there, haven’t really thought it through… but you’re welcome to point out the flaws. :wink:
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aww its okay new guy. I cant chew you a new one for trying! Historically fighters and bombers dont cost the same. I like that you have planes that cost 10, 11, 12 IPC. Each with their own benefits too!
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I don’t know if someone mentioned this but- REMEMBER- in the E40,P40 (G40) games the Battleships and Carriers will take 2 hits- HOWEVER- they have to go back to a naval base to REPAIR- which limits their movement somewhat. This may make these units “slower” than just buying a couple of crusiers or 3 destroyers. I thought this was a clever rule to make room for all naval units to have good roles to play.
At 3-3 the tank probably should be $6 anyway- c’mon the crusier is 3-3???
Tech bomber at $11- yeah- should probably bump the bomber up $2 bucks to $14 then.
By the way, is there a confirmation on any of the costs of the units in the E40/P40 games??? Can someone make a list??
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$90.00 unless you preorder it I believe.
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Bombers at 14 means no one buys them, ever.
Cruisers at 12 mean almost the same thing.
And armor at 6 is less cost efficient than mech inf at 4, for attack and defense.
And why would I pay 1 more IPC for a tac bomber that only fights as good as a fighter when with a tank when I could instead buy a fighter.
Time for more math! Woot.
Let us take a combined arms force, we will say 3 inf, 3 armor, and 3 tec bombers. Using TripleA battlecalc and assuming the tec bombers are regular bombers which is better for them because they don’t loose the +1 due to the armor dying, but that is beside the point.
3 inf, 3 arm, 3 tec bombers vs 11 inf win 52% of the time
4 inf, 3 arm, 3 fighters (same cost) vs 11 inf win 54% of the timeDollar for dollar they are about the same on the attack in a mixed group, yet fighters have no restrictions like needing armor, AND they defend better.
End result is for useless unit list:
Cruiser
Armor @ 6
Tactical Fighters @ 11 -
yes but Tac bombers cerianly will change naval combat. and you have to admit tanks at 6 IPC means people wont buy As many of them right?
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2 infantry is now a better deal than 1 tank. Do the math.
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3 mech inf are better than 2 tanks as well, the true problem.
Vs navy i’ll just buy regular bombers, range is the most important factor when defending against enemy drops.
Navy vs Navy the destroyer is still a better buy offensively and defensively, so I wont care.
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aww its okay new guy. I cant chew you a new one for trying! Historically fighters and bombers dont cost the same. I like that you have planes that cost 10, 11, 12 IPC. Each with their own benefits too!
Well, I wasn’t talking about bombers, I was talking about Fighter-bombers or Tactical bombers if you will. You do know the difference between a bomber and a fighter-bomber, don’t you? I certainly hope so.
A squadron of Stukas costing more than a squadron of FW190s… I wouldn’t think so.
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Geez…You could have worded it nicer
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Are your feelings hurt?
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Yes. I am going to order a sob burger with french cries. boo hoo!
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Now, now it’s okay. Everything is going to be all right.
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well, I do not think that navy units should be compared with tanks directly
yes, a tank is a 3-3-2 for 6 and a cruiser is a 3-3-2 for 12, but you can not compare them directly because they will never fight each otherhowever, you can compare them through the air units, because each will have to fight with air units
tanks are a 3-3-2 for 6 and fighters are a 3-4-4 unit for 10, which is fair or perhaps a little expensive for the tank which should cost 5 or 5.5 or something
fighters are a 3-4-4 unit for 10 and cruisers are a 3-3-2 unit for 12, but the fighter requires you to pay for a carrier, which you don’t attack with, that costs 18, which is an additional 9 per fighter, so that means fighters are a 3-4-4 unit for 19 while cruisers are a 3-3-2 unit for 12, which is not fair for the fighter and sucks my balls (see my post about the cost of carriers)
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You guys are too much into maths….
Even at 12, UK will buy Cruisers. Why? Even if Destroyers are superior for defense/offensve (naval), Cruiser has the ability of hitting the ground when dropping troops.
Tanks @ 6ipc. Means you can’t do super stacks of tanks that easily. Means tanks become valuable (which they should be)
Also, Tanks being a ground unit will reinforce a territory you conquer. You can’t land planes on them, remember?Technically speaking, Carriers are really really expensive. You will have to build them to control the sea.
About tactical bombers. I’m still not sure how they function. The word “bomber” could be misleading. But if this type of plane can SBR, then it is good (range could be an issue). Otherwise, it must have some sort of ability. (Maybe the boost on armor will be enough to justify their purchase)
One thing is sure, this game will be completly new. Air bases, naval bases, new units, new costs, bigger maps… The game will change. So all these discussions on the costs (Without the actual map) seem to me pointless.
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I don’t know if someone mentioned this but- REMEMBER- in the E40,P40 (G40) games the Battleships and Carriers will take 2 hits- HOWEVER- they have to go back to a naval base to REPAIR- which limits their movement somewhat. This may make these units “slower” than just buying a couple of crusiers or 3 destroyers. I thought this was a clever rule to make room for all naval units to have good roles to play.
V-man, you have a point, you have to realize the other factors involved in this game like the ones mentioned above by myself earlier and the effect of naval and airbases and Major and Minor ICs (can’t be built on Islands except UK, Japan and Australia).
Can Kreighund give us a price list of all the units yet??? No sense debating if some of the prices are unknown. :?
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