Islaam really isn't as violent as you think

@Yanny:

No, Islaam spread to Mesopotamia, Egypt, and Persia. The Turks were fighting the Byzantines for centuries, don’t know much about the 3 civil wars.

Study your Middle Eastern History. Islam spread by FORCE from the areas conquered by Mohammad to the rest of Arabia, Mesopotamia, Eqypt, Cyrnecia, Eastern Anatolia, Syria, Iran, and central Asia.

The Byzantines were fighting the PERSIANS, not the Turks, at least not in the seventh century. The Turks didn’t leave central asia until the eleventh century.

@Yanny:

These are just yahoos from one side. We have radical Christians from the south calling for us to round up Muslims and place them in “Interment Camps”.

This is the equivalent of the Pope and the council of Southern Baptists calling for the forced conversion of the Arabs. Yahoos, Yanny?

@yourbuttocks:

Study your Middle Eastern History. Islam spread by FORCE from the areas conquered by Mohammad to the rest of Arabia, Mesopotamia, Eqypt, Cyrnecia, Eastern Anatolia, Syria, Iran, and central Asia.

Yes and no. It spread through force by conversion of non-jews/christians/zoroastrians. These three groups were left more or less alone. And where do you put central asia, that would be interesting to know since you yourself brought up that we speak about the seventh century, and not the eleventh…

““And when the filibustering is over, what are the answers?””

Well, TG, I agree talk is cheap. As for action, reckon each of us does what best suits our abilities and opportunities. Lead by example, etc. The guiding answer for me is to ask whether such and such an action (individual, group, national, etc.) provides more healing than hurt, and does it engender additional healing or simply eat away resources that could be better applied elsewhere. Triage, as they call it.

On the original theme of this thread, that a particular religion isnt as bad as its current and historical press might indicate, well I see the yin and yang in each of the “big faiths” – each has provided comfort and inspiration to multitudes, and each has been used to foment hate and destruction upon multitudes. Among both the fundamentalist Christians and the fundamentalist Muslims of today, one thing is held in common: the wish to send us all back to the authoritarian, intolerant, anti-intellect and anti-liberty setup of medieval times – although in great irony, both types also wish to obtain, hold and utilize all the fruits of democracy, tolerance, intellect and liberty (such as modern telecommunications, financial instruments, advanced weapons, etc.) in order to achieve this end.

Taking a long view, the ideology doesn’t matter to a starving kid. The protein does. How much our government or social club or religion should shell out to save these kids from starving is a vital question, as are the related foreign policy issues others have discussed above. Most participants in this forum seem to live within the lands where food is abundant, as are weapons and financial resources. It would be wise for us to use these resources to encourage benign stability and local self-determination and conflict resolution. It’s a case-by-case situation, and you have to have reliable people on the ground. If you find Muslims or animists or Christians or Communists or Hindus are the most trustworthy locals in a given situation, better work with em. I would stipulate that they aren’t being favored because of their faith, but because of their character.

Straight ahead, Yanny.

The world needs fewer scapegoats and scapegoaters, and more individuals willing to stand up, take responsibility for their community. Keep lending that hand and studying the issues… maybe that politician will someday turn out to be you.

My views on this subject are well established (2nd one i think . . .) but at the same time, if i was an American, or if these things happened in Canada, it would not be long before i started wondering “why are the practicers of Islam/people of Arabic descent who claim to be Canadians not denouncing these occurrances”? There are declarations of war nearly daily against America by “these people” (not all Muslims blah blah blah) with few standing up and saying “this is my country! I love it! You have incurred our wrath, our shock, and we will not let this happen again!” Instead they reflexively protest being targetted because of these attacks - but not because they abhor the attacks and feel empathy with their fellow Americans. No, it’s because they live in America and should not be singled out like this. As a 3rd person observer working with Muslims i respect greatly - some of which have helped form my life, i am a little surprised at the fact that the only apparent outcry following 9/11 is:

1. Parties in the streets of primarily Islaamic countries, and
2. Unhappiness at being targetted for the actions of their “brothers and sisters”.
   I’ll tell you right now - if a Christian did something like this - anywhere in the world, i would very quickly and loudly denounce this as an EVIL (for you FS) action - not Christian and supporting Christian actions to help those violated by these actions.

@Yanny:

Simply enough, Muslims are seen as scapegoats in this country.

Because they are the religion treated best by the media? Because of the tremendous amont of out pouring of support to the Muslim Community post 9/11? Because there was no serious lashing out against Muslims in the U.S.?

@yourbuttocks:

Because they are the religion treated best by the media? Because of the tremendous amont of out pouring of support to the Muslim Community post 9/11? Because there was no serious lashing out against Muslims in the U.S.?

LOL :lol:

you belive this?

you belive this?

I believe it because I say it with my own two eyes. :-? After 9/11 there was a huge surge to support for the Muslim community by the media teaching people not to hate and not to blame Muslims but the true terrorists for 9/11. In schools it was made perfectly care not to tolerate violence on that group. Aren’t you surprised that the number of hate crimes didn’t shoot up even higher. Of course in California, it’s much more ethnically diverse so I’m not so sure about the rest of the Union. :-?

ya they did that but still a lot of americans thought muslims are evil, and the plans to attach the muslims in horrific ways were found out and stoped but if the hadnt stoped it….

they did that but still a lot of americans thought muslims are evil

Would it be any different in another country (non-Islamic) if this happened? :o But by and large this “lot of americans” was only a tiny majority compared to the rest of the more clear-minded, common sense people.

I did notice quite a bit of support, and knowing of some of the mentality in the States i was surprised that there were no obvious “anti-Muslim” rampages.
I think that the “evil-thinkers” were that way before 9/11 anyway (i.e. there was no REAL change in the amount anti-Muslim sentiment, but perhaps some increase in the intensity . . . if that makes any sense).

well, CC, there might not have been rampages, still the number of hate-crimes went up pretty high. I think that is sign enough that the “don’t hate muslims”-coverage in the media didn’t work 100% perfectly.

the number of hate-crimes went up pretty high. I think that is sign enough that the “don’t hate muslims”-coverage in the media didn’t work 100% perfectly.

There are always boud to be some yahoos in some parts of any country that think violence is the answer. Please give me a none-Islamic country where the people wouldn’t react 100% “perfectly.” You simply cannot. The number of hates crime did rise, but I’m surprised how small the numbers still are. :-?

Dude, I’d be surprised if most European countries even keep records on “hate crimes.” I can be as cynical as any, but most people in this ol’ USofA are a forgiving type, live-and-let-live, salt of the earth, hold a job and send the kids to medical school or computer academy, etc.

I have done my share of bad-mouthing one kind of red-white-and-blue redneck or snob or intolerant sshle or another, but there are few other nations these days that welcome just about everybody, and provide the avenues for free speech, etc. And while we are at it, THANK GOODNESS for THOMAS JEFFERSON, the original champion of the separation of church and state. It seems to me that most of the people on Main Street don’t wish to shove their private religious beliefs down other Americans’ throats – and it also seems to me that – for all of our gross, underhanded, outright illegal and other horrible mistakes and human rights infringements over the years – the U.S. military goes more out of its way than most other military organizations to protect the innocents.

You know something that really moves me emotionally. I am not kidding here – if you want to take a read of how forgiving, thoughtul and all-embracing the true American ideal can be, simply contemplate the amazing wheelchair-capable restroom! Where else on this spinning, orbiting madhouse of a world can you find, in city after town after truckstop after business after factory after schoolhouse such a basic effort toward improving human dignity!?

Instead of casting aside our “crippled” or maimed or otherwise disabled, we mandate nationally that their simplest needs and urgent natural callings must be accommodated in a civilized way. Dammit, show me what other country has more wheelchair restroom stalls per capita than the USofA? (IF some wiseguy sez Canada, well shucks I capitulate technically, but the comparison is frivolous)
We care about the underdog, even while the fat cats, white collar criminals, political prostitutes, street gangs, cable tv companies and organized mobsters are looting us all blind.

Inch’ Allah and God Bless America and let’s keep moving away from the medieval mores of the past and toward greater tolerance as intrepidly as possible!

(and thanks for hearing out this rant)

why frivolous?

However TG, we have a much bigger percentage of hate crimes (in fact, all crime) than any other western country.

I find this hard to believe… :-?