Another sub question

no.

Ogrebait is correct.  If your sub fires, it must suffer defensive fire, unless there’s nothing left to shoot back or the target is another sub that also gets a Surprise Strike.

@Krieghund:

Ogrebait is correct.  If your sub fires, it must suffer defensive fire, unless there’s nothing left to shoot back or the target is another sub that also gets a Surprise Strike.

I’ve always raised an eyebrow to the mutual sneak attack. Is that like spy vs. spy from Mad magazine?

@TexCapPrezJimmy:

I’ve always raised an eyebrow to the mutual sneak attack. Is that like spy vs. spy from Mad magazine?

No, it just means in the absence of any DD’s on either side, subs shoot first and casualties are removed from the board before they can fire in general combat. The advantage still goes to the attacker since defending subs only hit on a “1”. If the only ships in the fight are subs, then it doesn’t really change anything.

That is of course, if the defending sub even remains on the surface. 90% of the time, if its sub on sub, the defender is just going to submerge before any dice are rolled.

@katfishkris:

ok, another sub question.  if i attack a loaded carrier with 2 subs, do the fighters get to shoot back on defense, or is a defending destroyer need to be present for the fighters to hit my subs?

A DD belonging to the same country as the aircraft is required for the aircraft to engage the sub. For example, in the above assume the CV belonged to the US and there was a British DD in the same sea zone when attacked by a German sub. The sub’s surprise attack is nullified by the DD, but the British DD cannot “guide” the US ftrs to attack the German sub. However, the British DD and the US CV can both return fire.

@ogrebait:

A DD belonging to the same country as the aircraft is required for the aircraft to engage the sub. For example, in the above assume the CV belonged to the US and there was a British DD in the same sea zone when attacked by a German sub. The sub’s surprise attack is nullified by the DD, but the British DD cannot “guide” the US ftrs to attack the German sub. However, the British DD and the US CV can both return fire.

Sorry, but this is incorrect.  When defending, a destroyer only has to be friendly to an air unit and in the battle in order to allow the air unit to hit subs.  It need not belong to the same power.

When attacking, the destroyer must belong to the same power, as a destroyer in the sea zone belonging to a friendly power will not participate in the attack.

@Krieghund:

Sorry, but this is incorrect.  When defending, a destroyer only has to be friendly to an air unit and in the battle in order to allow the air unit to hit subs.  It need not belong to the same power.

When attacking, the destroyer must belong to the same power, as a destroyer in the sea zone belonging to a friendly power will not participate in the attack.

Okay, I must have missed this. Do you have a reference I could look at?

From the FAQ:

Q.  If a US fleet attacks a German sub, and a UK destroyer is in the same sea zone, will it cancel the special abilities of the German sub, even though the UK destroyer doesn’t participate in the battle?
A.  No.  Units in the same sea zone belonging to a power allied to the attacker never participate in a battle in any way.  Only a destroyer belonging to the attacking power will cancel the Submersible, Surprise Strike and Cannot Be Hit by Air Units abilities of defending submarines.  Since all defending units in the sea zone participate in the battle, any defending destroyer will cancel these abilities of attacking subs, even if the destroyer and fighter belong to different powers.

Thanks!