Subs retreat instead of submerge

@Cernel said in Revised Submerge/Withdraw Order:

This simple different wording would have probably made all crystal clear, and saved this whole (and other!) discussions, as well as my question.

I suppose that those dicussions lead to a clearer wording in LHTR and are one reason why submerging submarines had been moved to another step during ‘Conduct Combat’ starting from and including the Anniversary ruleset.

Right.  That is legal for a FRIENDLY landing, but not an amphibious assault.

And it is true that aircraft operating alone get to fire on enemy SUBs ONCE before the SUB can submerge (in revised anyway).

Personally, I think that the SUB should be able to do its opening fire step as a “submerge” against an air only attack.  At a bare minimum, allow the SUB to roll its “to hot” die, and if they hit, they submerge before the aircraft could attack them.

Historically, SUBs were killed by DSTs, not aircraft.  Aircraft inflicted SUB casualties were pretty low for most of the war for all sides.

Thank you SS.

Air units can retreat from any combat, but must do so all at the same time.

If the land units retreat, then ALL remaining units must retreat.
Land units all have to go to the SAME TERRITORY, which must be a territory that at least 1 of the land units that fought in the battle came from.
Air units can land in any friendly territory in range (friendly as of the start of the current national turn).

True, the presence of a DST in a SZ that a SUB is passing through leads to “detection” of the SUB by the DST and combat results in the SZ.

Thus in NCM movement, a DST BLOCKS movement by a SUB through that SZ, since the SUB cannot NCM through it.

@ncscswitch:

To be honest though, I think it is such an exceedingly rare occurance that I don;t think it will be an issue in 999 games out of 1000.

Agreed

And I still like the “logic” of not being able to blast away Parisian INF from the Normandy Coast; or Chicago National Guard Units from the Virginia coast…

Yeah, that is kinda wonky.  But no more so than some of the other abstractions the game makes.

Yes.

http://dicey.net/revised/viewtopic.php?t=73

About half way down, the first 2 or 3 paragraphs on non-combat movement are explicit.

@Silstar:

The sneak attack rules we have always played with are this:

The sub can declare it’s target

A hit of 2 is an automatic sink except against a battleship, where it damagers it to the point that it does not participate in the first round.

A hit of 1 sinks everything, including a battleship. A hit of 1 will also hit a carrier before the fighters launch and the fighters go down with the ship. We made that ‘1’ real important. We usually don’t risk it, but you’d be surprised the number of times it’s worked and changed the whole war.

Two things…

One… too powerful for subs.

Two… House Rules section for further discussion.