You are Funny girl.
It was a great Northern victory, but it was not realised at the time.
Atlanta is all that mattered, so the action at Mobile was overlooked at the time
Taxes
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Jen, a Consumption tax such as the Fair Tax is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from the VAT tax.
The Fair Tax levies a tax ONCE, at the final purchase of a NEW good or service.
VAT adds a tax at every step in the process.You may want to take about 4-5 hours and read Congressman John Linder’s book, The Fair Tax Book (premiered #1 on the New York Times Best Seller List for non-fiction last year) for accurate information on the bill currently before Congress. You could also read the bill itself, HR 25. The entire bill is only 160 or so pages.
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Actually, I prefer the latter. I wouldnt mind a government payout, one time only, for every healthy baby a successful household has. (As in no bankruptcy in last 10 years, not on socialist payout program, at least one member is gainfully employed, and the unit has to be married, not seperated or divourced or single, widow/widower okay.)
This way we can handle our future labor shortage by getting quality off spring to fill the void of the baby boomers.
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You know I don’t see how this isn’t going to turn political …
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I now chose consumption tax, though your characterization is incorrect of the current version before Congress.
There are NO exemption, but there is a Prebate for the amount of taxes that would be paid on any and all spending up to the level of the poverty line for the household.
The advantage of doing it that way is that:
if you exclude food, then Bill Gates pays no taxes on a million dollar dinner party.
if you prebate the tax on poverty level spending, then by choices made a family can potentially have ZERO tax burden, whether buying “exempt” items or not. -
I put conditions on the Consumption tax to make it stomachable. :P Food (not including candy and soda, etc), water and medicine are necessary to continue life, thus they should be tax free, IMHO.
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Again, you may want to check out how the Prebate works with the Fair Tax. You may change your mind once you see the details on it.
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Oh, and with the Prebate, spending on HOUSING is potentially tax exempt (again it depends on individual spending)
But with the Prebate you get back 100% of ALL taxes paid on ANYTHING up to the level of poverty line spending, so whether it is food, healthcare, housing, or your internet connection and cell phone for your at-home business is irrelevant tax-wise.
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Going on the assumption that all taxes were immediatly abolished at this instant, I’d have to go with the following:
- Individual Flat Tax (as opposed to the income tax, no more dicking around with wealth assessment and having invasive “audits” performed on people)
- Tax on Vehicles and gasoline (funds will be used SOLELY for the purpose of maintaining proper transportation and ensuring that transport routes are well serviced and in good condition).
- Corporate Tax (funds that should be used to fund business grants and small businesses, NOT for subsidizing large corporations or foundering businesses!!)
That’s about it. All other taxes that come along would be temporary ONLY for the duration of whatever project the funds are needed for (with a statute limit of 5 years).
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So what is the tax system you would prefer? I think I covered almost all the bases in those options, if I missed one, I apologize.
Anyway, there are a few in there that I like.
I like the idea that all citizens total up their net worth and pay XX% to the US Government. If you have a negative net worth, you don’t pay taxes, you might even get a payment from the government at a different YY%
I can think of SOOOO many ways to generate “negative net worth”. What a great incentive to gamble my ass off every year!!
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If folks think that our current tax system is invasive and overbearing, imagine a system where the “actual value” of every single thing that you own has to be valued every year in order to pay your taxes… A “Net Worth Tax” would be the ultimate Pandora’s Box of taxation.
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I agree, a net worth tax, or as I called it, a wealth tax, would allow the US Government to be overly invasive. However, it is the only way to truly ensure that the middle class is not overly burdened with taxes and allow the poor the most benefit while punishing the rich the most.
Currently, what we have, is a tax on the CREATION of wealth. This system is specifically designed to prevent class permeation, in other words, it prevents the poor from becoming middle class and the middle class from becoming the upper class.
Maybe a good compromise would be a wealth tax at the state level with the states, and the states alone, paying the US Government a subsistence allowance for government functions at the national level?
Notice I am specifically not including business taxes, that’s a whole other ball game. I am just interested in personal taxes.
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Excuse me, but wasn’t Jenn banned from political discussion? And isn’t this a political discussion? As mods are participating I guess it is a bit late but I thought I’d ask anyway.
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your right this is not political discussion.
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No offense, Frimmel, but instead of trying to get people in trouble, why not just let the Moderators do their thing? I wasn’t banned from all discussion, I wasn’t even banned from political discussion, just the political forum.
anyway, BACK ON TOPIC!
The more I think about it, the more I fall in love with the idea that the states should collect the taxes and out of what the states collect, they pay the national government. Keep the national government as far away from the people as possible. Besides, it’s much easier to write one check to, say, the State of Illinois then two checks and have to worry about the post office losing one or both of the forms!
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@Imperious:
your right this is not political discussion.
Good enough for me. Just watching the watchmen. :-) Back on topic. :-)
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If anyone is at fault here it would be me for mentioning specific legislation before Congress (though I did so only to differentiate the Fair Tax from things like VAT).
I think rather than a tax on either the creation of wealth OR the existence of wealth, we should tax the AVOIDANCE of wealth. If you work hard and earn money, you keep it. If you have money, you keep it. The only way you pay taxes is to SPEND wealth. And a certain amount is expected… a roof, food, etc., so you get a rebate on taxes up to that level of spending… but once you consume over that threshold, then you pay taxes.
It funds the government, it encourages savings, it encourages conservation… I think financially and philosophically it would be a good system. And states like Florida seem to be in agreement for the most part…
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But won’t a tax on spending money result in a massive effect on our economy by people not buying stuff to avoid the tax?
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If the tax is applied to everything that is purchased, then the tax is unavoidable.
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@ncscswitch:
If anyone is at fault here it would be me for mentioning specific legislation before Congress (though I did so only to differentiate the Fair Tax from things like VAT).
I think rather than a tax on either the creation of wealth OR the existence of wealth, we should tax the AVOIDANCE of wealth. If you work hard and earn money, you keep it. If you have money, you keep it. The only way you pay taxes is to SPEND wealth. And a certain amount is expected… a roof, food, etc., so you get a rebate on taxes up to that level of spending… but once you consume over that threshold, then you pay taxes.
It funds the government, it encourages savings, it encourages conservation… I think financially and philosophically it would be a good system. And states like Florida seem to be in agreement for the most part…
But couldn’t a tax on consumption end up as a regressive tax? My father and I work in the same location. His renumeration is greater than mine yet we incur the same fundamental expenses to fulfill our job requirements. A tax on my necessary consumption is a greater burden on me than on him. Would under you system my rebate be greater than his for a roof, clothes, fuel et al? And even with the rebate you are going to hold a greater percentage of my earnings over the course of the year denying me their use to bolster savings. I’m not versed in economics but aren’t all taxes on consumption essentially regressive taxes?
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Actually no, they are not, not if you lop off the bottom of the spending ladder and make it tax neutral (or even a revenue source for those who truly consume almost nothing).
Also, USED goods would be exempt from taxation, since the tax was already paid when it was new, so you could, at the lower socio-economic levels, avoid the consumption tax by purchasing a used car, an existing home, etc.
And the amount of the prebate is based on household size, so a household with 2 adults 2 children would get a much larger prebate than a household of 2 adults.
Again, you may want to check out Fair Tax .org for answers from the folks who are really in the know.
Now, if the Fair Tax could NOT be passed, then the only alternative would be a FLAT TAX. Although, we HAD a nearly flat tax once, just over 20 years ago (2 level flat tax… almost). But with over 10,000 amendments and changes since then, we have a fiasco.
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