Artillery

@Arreghas I really like the rule. Here’s what I like the most

I think it would speed up the game It helps minimize giant stacks of troops It’s historically accurate. Concentrated artillery bombardments were used all throughout the war, especially by the Germans in Russia during 1915

I just have one suggestion. I feel like having the artillery not being able to battle if they do this will discourage people from doing this, so here’s what I propose:

When you choose to have an “artillery duel” artillery just hit at one less, like you said. You and the defender use all your artillery in the territory Once per turn you may choose to have your artillery battle at their normal values. However, the roll at 1 until your next turn.

Karvajo,

Welcome to the A&A.org forums. You are in luck, I’ve already done the work to figure out how to add Arty to 1941. Allow me to regale you:

While I’m no expert, if I were going to add artillery units from 40 or 42 to my copy of 41, this is how I would do it.

First, use the pieces and rules from 42. Here are the stats for artillery:
@Axis:

Artillery
Cost 4
Attack 2*
Defense 2
Move 1

Supports Infantry: When an infantry attacks along with an artillery, the infantry’s attack increases to 2. Each infantry must be matched one-for-one with a supporting artillery unit. Artillery does not support infantry on defense.

Also, note in the rules section for infantry:
@Axis:

Infantry
Cost 3
Attack 1 (2 when supported by artillery)*
Defense 2
Move 1

Supported by Artillery: When an infantry attacks along with an artillery, the infantry’s attack increases to 2. Each infantry must be matched one-for-one with a supporting artillery unit. If your infantry outnumber your artillery, the excess infantry units still have an attack of 1. For example, if you attack with two artillery and five infantry, two of your infantry have an attack of 2 and the rest have an attack of 1. Infantry are not supported by artillery on defense.

Finally, I would change the initial setup for 1941 to reflect the presence of artillery in armies already on the board. I would think that changing every 3rd infantry in a territory to artillery would be a decent start. If I did that, I would change the setup in some territories and leave the rest alone. The changed territories would reflect the following setup:

Russia: 4 infantry, 2 artillery, 1 tank, 1 fighter*
Archangel: 2 infantry, 1 artillery
Karelia: 2 infantry, 1 artillery
Caucasus: 2 infantry, 1 artillery, 1 tank
Siberia: 2 infantry, 1 artillery

Germany: 2 infantry, 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 bomber
Eastern Europe: 3 infantry, 1 artillery, 2 tanks
Ukraine: 2 infantry, 1 artillery, 2 tanks
West Russia: 2 infantry, 1 artillery

Japan: 3 infantry, 1 artillery, 1 tank, 1 fighter, 1 bomber

*Note that according to the FAQ put out after the game released, the territory labeled Russia should start with six infantry. If you haven’t read this FAQ, you should, as it made other changes to the setup of the board. If you swap every third infantry for an artillery, you would get four infantry and two artillery, as shown above.

The FAQ for Axis & Allies 1941 can be found here: www.wizards.com/AvalonHill/rules/AA_1941_FAQ.pdf

Also, this would mean that neither the UK nor the US would start with any artillery as their regular setup have no territories with three or more infantry. Either shrug your shoulders or change their setup as you feel appropriate, perhaps as follows:

India: 1 infantry, 1 artillery, 1 fighter
Eastern U.S.: 1 infantry, 1 artillery, 1 tank, 1 fighter, 1 bomber

The above changes should integrate artillery into a game of 1941 fairly well. The Axis would swap 5 infantry for 5 artillery and the Allies would swap 6 or 8 (with optional UK and US artillery swapping) infantry for 6 or 8 (with optional UK and US artillery swapping) artillery for the setup of the game.

My 2 IPC

-M_R

Source: (https://boardgamegeek.com/article/22682014#22682014) Still me, just the BGG me.

-Midnight_Reaper

@userx:

@Baron:

I would rather prefer to limit them to their role of AA gun but, specialy for Germany, it seems they used a lot their 88mm AAA as antitank gun (El Alamein battle, i.e.).

I like that because you are correct, in Real Live, AA was just high-velocity ammo pointed at the sky, point it at a tank like the Germans did, it became an effective anti-tank.

I like the idea of taking out tank and/or armor for the pre-combat AA roll.

I don’t know if it would be unbalanced but I think I will try this next game

Thank you

I just learned that Germans put their Flak 88 on tracks and plates so it becomes the Tiger (Mark VI) and deliver them for the Battle of Kursk in 1943.
This gun seems quite an invention.

@Yavid:

2-2-2-5 supports inf., supports mech inf, Blitz with tank.

Looks like the best idea. Attack on 3 essentially would make it a tank at 1 IPC cheaper. Nobody would buy tanks anymore.

If you want accuracy, you would need to introduce the concept of units ‘breaking’ and running before they are destroyed.  Squad Leader (Avalong Hill 1977) had this, some squads keep fighting when they are down 50% strength, others ‘break’ and run when damage hits 10%.  Of course each of the existing units when they need variable strengths compared to other nations units.  This would require a switch to dice with a greater range of values, I’d say minimum 10 sides, but lets use 2 10 sided like AD&D.  No way a soviet or german tank unit fights the same way as an allied unit.  The way the allies fought german tanks was using a squad of 4 allied versus a german tank.  It starts like this, the first allied tanks lights up like a torch and the remaining three start to manouver around the german as its turret rotated a bit slow.  So, allied tank #2 then #3 light up in flames and the 4th allied tank gets in behind the german and lets loose at point blank range in the poorly armoured rear of the German and manages to disable it.

New units would not fight as well as vetern units of course so you would have to keep track of the age of each unit then modify its combat values based on just aging and also exposure to combat.  Yeah cool, way more accurate, of course each countries turn would take a few hours and we would have to go back to cardboard units with the 3-4 % values representing the units abilities.  We would need zillions of these units for each combination of values.

In ‘set-piece’ battles the Japanese were getting slaughtered against the US.  Perhaps it because by 1943 the US was producing as many machineguns per month as the Japanese produced during the entire war.  I think the Japs having never faced trench warfare and the futility of charging into massed machineguns had no concpet with this type of warefare.  Moreover, the Japs never seemed to retreat so they had little ablity to learn lessons as nobody came back to HQ with information on what they faced.  I would think for accuracy this would have to be represent also with different strencth units.

Personally, I think AA has found a pretty good balance of accuracy and playability.

4-6 was still good in the game though.  Since you could only have 2 + aircraft per territory…

Well its the very same rule i have in at least one of my games… it cant be that bad! Remember we are working with others and all these proposals will be considered. You have my vote unless something better comes along. Also, I only favor the AA action from a “built in” platform I dont want stand alone AA guns. SO the rule i like was where you roll:

roll one  d6 if you roll a 1 , then you roll again if you roll a 1 the plane is destroyed, if you roll a two the plane has to return to base ( damaged and cant drop its payload) results of 3-6 no effect.

Max rolls are one roll for every 2 planes, total max is 3 total rolls ( so 9 planes get 3 rolls).

Also jet fighters/bombers  cant be hit by AA guns

AA guns are built into IC and or VC territories ( maybe only capitals and IC).

again some of this is from you…

Im not sure what this is about but i think you offer either function for artillery against air or land. On a d6 a one in six chance is still too much… Perhaps roll 2 dice if you get a 2 then a hit is counted. Or if you got 2 artillery then a 2-3 is a hit. This attack would be preemtive. (planes are removed from play). The artillery should then be allowed to participate in normal combat with ground units. the following are some ideas for air combat missions. They are my old versions but they can help you anyway.

Air Interception of Air Units
Defending fighters may intercept and AA guns may fire at moving air units leaving the airspace of the defender’s territory or sea zone. One round of air interception combat occurs in the defender’s territory or sea zone.

Defensive Air Support
During Ground Combat Resolution, defending air units (including bombers) may move to an adjacent territory to participate in the defense of friendly ground units being attacked. Movement of these units takes one full combat round before they can be used. (Example: On round one, the defending player announces that he will dispatch fighters and on round two they are used in combat). Aircraft called up for DAS missions are not committed to fight a minimum number of combat rounds. For example: defensive Air Support was called in on combat round one and ready to fight on round two, but the defender rolled very poorly on his first round and decided to call off DAS and not risk losing his planes. At the end of ground combat resolution, surviving Defensive Air Support (DAS) units must return to their original land territory, if possible.

Combat Air Patrol
During the Non-Combat phase, you may establish Combat Air Patrol (CAP) from any territory to adjacent sea zones. Simply move any air units in range to unoccupied sea zones. Any enemy naval units (except Subs) that move into this sea zone must now stop and engage the CAP and a battle will then be fought. An enemy player can move planes to either engage the CAP, or to fly to islands in the sea zone and fight ground units or support an amphibious assault. During the regular movement phase, all CAP planes must then land on the friendly Islands or Carriers.

Coastal Defense
During Naval Combat Resolution, defending air units (including bombers) may move to an adjacent sea zone to participate in the defense of friendly naval units being attacked, or where defending naval units are conducting combat against enemy naval units that have ended their movement in the defender’s sea zone (including during amphibious assaults). Movement of these units takes one full combat round before they can be used. (Example: On round one, the defending player announces that he will dispatch fighters and on round two they are used in combat). At the end of naval combat resolution, surviving coastal defense air units must return to their original land territory, if possible.
Air units may provide coastal defense even if the land territory they are from is under attack. They may provide coastal defense, defend the land territory, or provide strategic air defense; they may not do more than one. At the end of combat resolution, if the territory a defending air unit flew from is captured, the air unit must fly to the closest friendly territory within its flight range. If no friendly territory is available, the defending air unit is eliminated.

Strategic Bombing
Bombers may perform strategic bombing against enemy ICs within their range. Strategic bombers may be intercepted by defending fighters and attacked by strategic air defense. Each bomber that survives may roll one die; this is the number of IP that the IC is reduced by during the owning country’s next turn. An IC may lose more IP than its printed value.
Fighter Escort
Fighters may accompany moving bombers or naval units as far as their range allows them and participate in air interception combat, but they may only enter two sea zones to the target territory or two sea zones and two sea zones when returning from the target territory. Escorting fighters may escort either naval units or bombers (not both) and may not attack naval units or a territory during the same turn they escort bombers or naval units.

Strategic Air Defense
Directly before strategic bombers roll for damage on an IC, defending fighters and AA guns in the territory may defend against bomber (and their escorts, if any) with one round of combat. Defending AA guns have a first-shot attack against each attacking air unit. The strategic bombers and their escorts can only target defending fighters (and not any ground units). Any surviving bombers may then bomb the IC.