Wow, glad my Buryatia comment sparked some debate. I’ve only done the move once.
Russia and Britain dictate whether Japan can even think about Buryatia or not. As I said, it requires a conservative first turn from the Allies in the Pacific.
If Russia is in position to counter Buryatia I say bring it on. The 3 transport build means more dead Russians if Buryatia is countered- according to some of these posts a tank or two. Thanks for voluntarily depleting your offensive forces, Mutha Russia. As Japan I’d exchange troops with Russia all day long. As said above Russian troops defending the north means less troops in the Sinkiang/ Novo region.
And there’s no way around this fact- 6 dead Russians may not equal the Sub/ Carrier/ Fighter Pearl strike in IPC value, but they’re 6 dead Russians. The Axis goal is to get to Russia, isn’t it?
And in only two battles the force breakdown can look like this-
Vs. Buryatia- 3 Inf/ Arm/ 4 Ftrs/ Bmr/ BB shot vs 6 Inf. That looks like winning with an armor to me.
Vs. China- 4 Inf/ 2 Ftrs vs 2 Inf/ Ftr. Looks like a win with 1-2 Inf left to me.
SZ 60= BB, Carrier/ 2 Ftrs, Destroyer, 4 Transports. British Kwangtung destroyer has been taken out by BB + Carrier. Set up to hit F Indo in a reprisal, Buryatia in a reprisal, or reinforce either/or. Second turn IC and you’re rolling into Asia nearly unchecked. And if Russia is seriously (not just token defense) impeding your progress, then they’re certainly not stacking in enough force in W Russia to prevent German gains.
All that having been said, I don’t do this move. Being strong up the gut in China, and killing the Pearl fleet at little or no loss, is extremely solid play. But Switch, I don’t think a Buryatia strike should be summarily dismissed as a bad move. It can have merit in the right situation.
You are forgeting that your 2 Inf from FIC is usually dead (in 60% of the cases so is the Fig in FIC, and UK lands an additional Fig in China)
And if you don´t do pearl you will have hell to pay, and if you don´t kill Buryatia, Russia will attack Manchuria with 6 inf, 2 Arm on R2 (then moving into China and to Sinkiang to Defend)
I usually land the Indian UK fighter in Bury with those 6 Russian Inf. It can still be taken on J1, but it makes the attack more costly, often costing Japan a Fighter.
If Russia counters Bury on R2, and if Japan has no TRNs on J2,
Why do you keep saying this Switch? What secret attack do the Americans have that can break any transports on US1? SZ60 is guarded by 4 tran, 1 car + 2 figs, 1 bb, 1 dest, and 1 sub (dicepoints = 24, 4 dead units on average). The best the Americans can bring is 2 fig, 1 car, and 1 sub (9 dice points, 1.5 dead units on average). Do you think you will get any tran at all?
The Russian defense is broken completely if Bury is countered. The Russians have burned 10 inf and 1 tank in the East by round 2.
You’re right that Japan can go too fast, and I don’t advocate the counter as a magical bullet that should be done in every game, but I think it’s a pretty fair counter if India is abandoned and the Bury stack (just 6 inf, no UK fighter) is all you’re seeing so far from the Allies. I’d rather spank those inf before they get backup from other troops.
My conservative play is pretty much what 88 millimeter is saying, take China strong, do Pearl light, and land troops in manchuria with fighters so the Russians don’t get extra money (unless they also have a couple tanks in Yakut, then. If the UK stayed in India, then I might have to leave FIndo troops there so they don’t expand either, otherwise India is taken. Kwang fleet destroyed by East Indies fleet, etc. Deploy the tran in SZ61 with 1 bb as backup. Then your bases are covered and you’re ready to strike at weakpoints.
I am wondering Nix what would your attacks on Germany look like without those 2 tanks on R1? If anybody has an idea you can post it in his place, I am leaving for my uncles house and we’re gonna play a&a tonight. I really wanna try this strategy it sounds like a good way to delay Japan or even drive him off Asia (novice Japan)!
You are forgeting that your 2 Inf from FIC is usually dead (in 60% of the cases so is the Fig in FIC, and UK lands an additional Fig in China)
And if you don´t do pearl you will have hell to pay, and if you don´t kill Buryatia, Russia will attack Manchuria with 6 inf, 2 Arm on R2 (then moving into China and to Sinkiang to Defend)
Good point Nix, but in most games I play the Allied player either retakes Egypt, is aggressive in the Pacific islands, or pulls troops out of India to use another day. I’ve never had that strat used against me (Brits vs. F Indo). If the garrison at F Indo was dead they would be very _un_usually dead.
And when I’ve seen the Hawaiin fleet left standing, I’ve never seen hell. It does mean that the U.S doesn’t have to buy a carrier. It’s a help to the U.S. but certainly not a game breaker. It seems you believe in going after Japan; most people KGF. That’s what I’m most experienced in facing.
I’ll re-emphasize, and I’ll put it in bold to make it clear, Russian and British choices dictate whether Japan can even think about Buryatia or not. It is completely contingent on the game as it stands at that point. I would hardly advocate assaulting Buryatia under good circumstances - if Britain comes after F Indo, then I obviously wouldn’t do it. So, I wasn’t forgetting anything- I just didn’t spell out every scenario that could happen.
Im just saying that if you are playing me, the forces in FIC would be hit.
It’s definitely a good way to make Japan sweat, no doubt about that. Is that standard for you or do you do it based on what Germany does?
Im just saying that if you are playing me, the forces in FIC would be hit.
I’ve thought of doing this too, but that means Germany gets some juicy IPCs out of Africa. :-(
The thought of attacking FIC had crossed my mind as well. But I determined it was mostly situational. If Gemany gets thumped in Egypt or I’m bringing the Russian hammer to Japan it’s worth a shot, but otherwise it’s just sacrificing a lot of irreplaceable units early for an average payout. Japan can live with only 5 fighters.
Whether or not you do Pearl depends on what USSR and UK did.
If USSR and UK are attempting to hold the Asian coast (buildup in India and Burytia), Japan should probably use its air to blow up Burytia and land in position to hit India or a US fleet advance on Japan 2.
If the UK unified its fleet, that’s another thing to consider.
If there is an industrial complex in India and/or Ssinkiang, that’s something yet again.
etc. etc.
Plus, remember you can do Pearl with just fighters, bomber, and naval fodder, as well as the usual kitchen sink attack.
In the fleet mass you mention Tri, there is no Japan IC on J1. Taht in itself is a limit to Japan in Asia.
Now… if Bury does not fall, US adds a bomber to the attack. If China holds (quite possible with the AF diversion to Bury and with the UK FIG flown in for defense), now you have 3 FIG, 1 BOM, 1 AC, 1 SUB.
The worse situation for Japan though is not a US 1 counter, it is US2.
As for Egypt, Germany gains some ground briefly, but with a massed Allied landing in north Africa such as is being done to me in my current game, Germany’s gains will be minor and short lived; in addition to Germany not being able to make massive progress against Russia even with Russian forces diverted to Asia due to the growing threat to Southern.
In the fleet mass you mention Tri, there is no Japan IC on J1. Taht in itself is a limit to Japan in Asia.
You shouldn’t be building ICs on J1 if you suspect that much initial pressure against Japan. You still have plenty of troops to offload if you build 3 tran 2 inf on J1
Now… if Bury does not fall, US adds a bomber to the attack. If China holds (quite possible with the AF diversion to Bury and with the UK FIG flown in for defense), now you have 3 FIG, 1 BOM, 1 AC, 1 SUB.
If the UK fig is flown in for defense, then Bury is skipped. If the UK fig is not flown in, this situation only occurs 20% of the time. Even when this situation occurs, that means I might have to lose a carrier, destroyer, and sub, and perhaps 1 tran, while the US airforce is reduced to 1 fighter in Eastern US. I could even be willing to lose 1 fighter to take Buryatia, which extends the chances of taking Buryatia up to 92%.
The worse situation for Japan though is not a US 1 counter, it is US2.Â
As for Egypt, Germany gains some ground briefly, but with a massed Allied landing in north Africa such as is being done to me in my current game, Germany’s gains will be minor and short lived; in addition to Germany not being able to make massive progress against Russia even with Russian forces diverted to Asia due to the growing threat to Southern.
These are mutually exclusive events. The US cannot buy enough on US2 both provide meaningful pressure on Japan and get into Africa with massive forces.
What is being done to you is interesting, but has its own set of limitations. It requires the UK fleet to buy its own defense as it operates in the north, and the US can never help a 1-2 punch into the capital itself via navy. That first part, requiring the UK to buy its own defense, is impractical when facing a med/baltic naval link, which I think is the one main reason why I think it won’t work.
If the UK fig is flown in for defense, then Bury is skipped.
Thanks, Tri- this is the crux of what I was trying to say. I even put it in bold in my last post to make it clear :-D
But I’ll do it again because it’s fun.
Russian and British choices dictate whether Japan can even think about Buryatia or not.
Buryatia is only possible if the right conditions exist. An extra British fighter in China means the right conditions do not exist. And if you do choose to do it, you build accordingly (3 transports), which deals with the U.S. threat.
To every question of “well what if _______ and what if________”, I answer- don’t attack Buryatia.
