PRO ITALIAN STRATEGY

Has anyone tried to build an IC in Iraq? Italy can get Iraq turn 2 and hold it. I would like to try it in our current game, but I am not sure if that is a good plan.

With 1 transport, Italy can eventually take Iraq, but a strong UK player will have a fleet left over there, and the situation is to the Allies advantage unless the Axis have kept or committed more resources than in a typical game to this region through some other channel.

Plus, its pretty slow moving;  Syria I1, Iraq I2, Place Mic (with what Italian $$?) I3, Place first units I4 (again, with what $$? you’ve got jack)…

By I4, a strong UK player will have plenty of threat on the oil zone and your position is insecure, esp. when he already has 1-2 factories right next to you.

If on the other hand, the UK has virtually nothing left in that region (this is why I don’t counsel doing the T+T Tobruk+Taranto move, you lose all your Allied assets UK1), and the Italians somehow have more than anticipated on the water (2TT+), then by all means, kick open the Syrian door (this terr. is key because its placed such that you can shuck-shuck men there from Italy, land planes there, and can screen out egpyt, and can kill the UK NO by taking crete) and head for the oil, a few german planes can divert there for cover without requiring Germany to commit to a full afrika korps aid package.

@taamvan:

With 1 transport, Italy can eventually take Iraq, but a strong UK player will have a fleet left over there, and the situation is to the Allies advantage unless the Axis have kept or committed more resources than in a typical game to this region through some other channel.

Plus, its pretty slow moving;  Syria I1, Iraq I2, Place Mic (with what Italian $$?) I3, Place first units I4 (again, with what $$? you’ve got jack)…

By I4, a strong UK player will have plenty of threat on the oil zone and your position is insecure, esp. when he already has 1-2 factories right next to you.

If on the other hand, the UK has virtually nothing left in that region (this is why I don’t counsel doing the T+T Tobruk+Taranto move, you lose all your Allied assets UK1), and the Italians somehow have more than anticipated on the water (2TT+), then by all means, kick open the Syrian door (this terr. is key because its placed such that you can shuck-shuck men there from Italy, land planes there, and can screen out egpyt, and can kill the UK NO by taking crete) and head for the oil, a few german planes can divert there for cover without requiring Germany to commit to a full afrika korps aid package.

Yes you are right. It is quite slow and UK can put up a lot of thread. But if Tobruk survived, then UK can not afford to send units from Egypt to attack Iraq and even if they move to Iraq and move a lot of troops from south Africa, it distracts them and binds resources, which could be very helpful for the German conquest.

But like most plans it depends on the opponent, the current game and some luck.

I might suggest my Taranto Lite plan

attack Taranto with 1 DD 1 CA 1 SB 1 TB 2FIG 1 SUB(BID)  7 hits vs 6 hits

this way the UK carrier can live, you buy a TT and arty for SA, and move the india fleet over with your carrier you saved, now you have a new strike force of 1CA 1CV 1DD up to 2TT (from SA, even the BB could party…if it lives) even when you keep a DD over by SZ 37? to prevent the Japanese from moving past you during combat move…this UK indian ocean fleet can be an annoyance for the rest of the game rather than stripping UK south out by going crazy UK1.

Only problems with this idea are 1) makes you vulnerable to sea lion because all your fighters left and you’re spending away from London 2) it requires the 6 bid, but a larger bid doesn’t help more because you only get 1 sea placement area during bidding in that region) 3) its an odds battle and if the Italians prevail, they keep a repaired BB and TT :( whereas you dedicated everything and it is vulnerable where it lands (Syria/crete)

If the Italians have those 8 ground troops threatening Egypt, you’re right, you’ll need to stick together (this is where SA shuck-shuck helps).  But I think those guys are hopelessly stuck in a money dead zone for Italy, esp. if Taranto goes well…

My first post - yay!  Because of the ease and near necessity of the UK player doing at least Taranto and simultaneously or soon after Tobruk, the Italians always get the short end of the stick after the 1st turn.  They already start out with little in the way or forces and it makes playing the Italians harder and/or an unwanted burden in a game.  Boosting historical realism plus giving the Italians a fighting chance could be easily house ruled using a similar rule to those OOB rules that are in play for the US, Russia, Japan. That is, Italy is neutral until they attack a power, true neutral or allied neutral - just like reality.  If it is written that Italy cannot be attacked until they conduct an attack or a DOW on a major power, it would allow them to gain a few territories (as they historically attempted) before the UK et al puts the boots to them.
    I feel that this at least gives some value to the Italian forces (other than can-opening) whilst the UK could still improve their position to prepare for any potential Italian movements with their earlier movement in the round.  Note, I’m not taking bidding into account as I favour maximum OOB play so I’m sure many may say this just gives the Axis yet another advantage.  To that all I can say is if you play with bidding, that may mean your bids will go up.  Thank you and I love this forum!

Might it be a good strategy to move with the Italian troops from Tobruk west instead to Alexandria and Egypt (of course assuming that UK1 attack on Tobruk did not happen? Normally when the troops are moved to Alexandria, then they are killed fairly certain if they are not supported by the German airforce and often just stay there useless.

In my current game it happend that Germany lost to many aircraft during the G1 attack and thus was not able to protect my. My force got killed.

@Ichabod:

My Italian Strategy: I’ve found that for me, the most effective Italian strategy is to usually give practically nothing to Italy in the beginning…S. France, Yugo, Bulgaria, Greece goes to Germany.

Italy needs to get a strong force to Rostov - about 9-13 ground forces. This can opener threat really keeps Russia holed up in Moscow so Germany can hold/keep Caucasus and Stalingrad. Italy can get a few more IPCs by doing some can opener attacks.

how about: Italy takes bulgaria on I1 (Germany kills yugo). Then you get 4 italian inf to help the canopening. This also have the added benefit of givint italy some inf in the front. Italy can now be used to take the terr in USSR. This is good bc germany can now land Luftwaffe in the new terr, so deadzoning is that much more difficult. As an added benefit, Luftwaffe is in an italian terr, so italy can build an Airbase on demand, making allied landings less effective. The sweet thing about this is that the allied have to assume your bombers have 7 in move and have to avoid them, so you can get the full effect of an airbase without actually building it :D

@Team:

My first post - yay!    Thank you and I love this forum!

Good points, and welcome aboard!

@Kreuzfeld:

@Ichabod:

My Italian Strategy: I’ve found that for me, the most effective Italian strategy is to usually give practically nothing to Italy in the beginning…S. France, Yugo, Bulgaria, Greece goes to Germany.

Italy needs to get a strong force to Rostov - about 9-13 ground forces. This can opener threat really keeps Russia holed up in Moscow so Germany can hold/keep Caucasus and Stalingrad. Italy can get a few more IPCs by doing some can opener attacks.

how about: Italy takes bulgaria on I1 (Germany kills yugo). Then you get 4 italian inf to help the canopening. This also have the added benefit of givint italy some inf in the front. Italy can now be used to take the terr in USSR. This is good bc germany can now land Luftwaffe in the new terr, so deadzoning is that much more difficult. As an added benefit, Luftwaffe is in an italian terr, so italy can build an Airbase on demand, making allied landings less effective. The sweet thing about this is that the allied have to assume your bombers have 7 in move and have to avoid them, so you can get the full effect of an airbase without actually building it :D

I usually can march the 6 starting infantry or at least 5 of them all the way to Rostov and re-build enough defenses by the time the UK or US show up at Gibraltar with transports. However, your idea does make sense as a way to help Italy’s can opener role.

I tend to leave Greece for Italy and make Germany take Bulgaria and Yugo based on historical value. Now has anyone ever seen UK take Greece if you choose to leave it for Italy? I have never seen this because I am sure UK thinks taking Greece will weaken its position in Med. Any thoughts on this?