Germany Strategy concept…

Generally, especially in the early game, ceding the territory is the way to go.

Rome landings realy arent much of a problem for Germany, as the opportunity cost of those units not punching thru Cairo are enormous.

Personally, I love to see USA extend his shuck in the early game, defending both SZ 12 and SZ 14 is very difficult without spending a bunch of (unnecessary) money on capital ships (BS and AC), and having enough trannies to do so efficiently is very expensive as well.  Every dollar USA spends on non-ground units is a boon to the Axis.

In Revised USA doesnt have an enormous monetary advantage, and so there is only so many things they can accomplish.

Keeping Paris stacked tall is far more important for keeping the Allies out of Europe for as long as possible.  A stack of Ftrs tere make USA extending past 12 very difficult.

@Gumdrop:

If i move a U.S. destroyer into a sea space that has an a German sub and several U.K. sea units(no destroyer in the U.K. fleet) do i conduct combat?
If so, how do i go about doing so?

I can’t believe nobody answered this sooner.

If you move ANY naval force, with or without a destroyer, into a sea zone containing enemy submarines, combat will happen. If the invading naval force has a destroyer, then combat continues until the subs are destroyed or all destroyers are destroyed. If all destroyers are taken out, the player who owns the subs may decide to submerge.

If the attacking naval force has no destroyers, then the first round of combat goes as normal. At the conclusion of the first round, the player who owns the subs has the option of submerging his subs.

If the invading group consists of only planes, then the planes roll dice as normal, but submarines cannot hit planes, and therefore they do not roll. At the conclusion of the first round of combat, any surviving subs may submerge. Also, if a naval force containing planes and warships does combat, offensively or defensively, with a group of subs, each time a sub hits those hits MUST be assigned to navy ships. The player who owns planes cannot designate them as causalities, since subs cannot fire on planes. If a carrier is destroyed and the corresponding fighters cannot reach a safe landing zone, they are lost at the end of combat (or when the subs submerge).

I do not know if the UK fleet in your situation is allowed to participate in combat or not. Normally, it is impossible (save for national advantages) for two sides to operate offensively together. If I remember correctly, UK fighters carried into combat aboard US carriers cannot participate in combat on the US player’s turn; that would imply that in your stated situation, the UK fleet is forbidden from engaging during the US player’s turn.
@Gumdrop:

On a larger scale, how do the Allies subdue/ beat the Germans before the Japanese take Russia and make it damn near impossible to do offensive actions in Europe?

Bare in mind i play without bids, and i am well aware of the game imbalances that exiest when all five players know what they are doing, but my group doesn’t quite know what it needs to be doing to play the game effectively.

How to defeat Germany before Japan reaches Russia is a complicated question. It depends greatly upon the game and the players involved. As you mentioned your play group hasn’t yet reached peak performance, I’ll mention some killer strategies that may or may not work with more experienced players- after all, part of the fun is figuring out your own tactics.

As Russia, play aggressively. Defensive Russia almost always loses. Try attacking two German territories your first turn (like Ukraine and West Russia). With skill and luck, you can take three territories on Russia’s first turn, but this doesn’t always work- and may cost you too much even if it does. To support your offensive strategy, try building nothing but tanks with Russia the entire game. If you have IPCs left over, put down an infantry, but otherwise, nothing but tanks. On the Eastern front, make sure Japan can’t blitz through territories that have no defenders. Also, moving your starting infantry to block key lanes of attack (such as the middle corridor through China) is a great way to slow Japan down without spending any money.

Typically, an all-tank Russia can take several German territories over the first few turns before the Germans can force them back, costing Germany IPCs and giving Russia both more money and more room to retreat with before Moscow itself is threatened. On that note, holding Ukraine is vital for keeping German tanks out of Caucus, but don’t defend Ukraine or Caucus at the expense of a possible attack on Moscow.

With Britain, land fighters in Russia. They can fly straight from the UK to Moscow in one turn. If Russia has to go defensive, Japan/Germany will have a much harder time getting them with 6 UK or US fighters on the defensive in Moscow.

Usually, the US player tries to build a small armada of transport ships. Land units are purchased in Eastern US and walked to Eastern Canada, where transports can pick them up. They can be dumped on Western Europe, Norway, or (if Germany isn’t paying attention) in Berlin itself. Different players do this differently; some have transports pick up and deposit units in the UK, while a second group gets them from the UK (on the next turn!) and attacks with them. Others have the transports pick up in Canada and carry the troops to their final destinations without transitions. Up to you. Also note that from the Eastern US coast, your transports can reach Northern Africa. It may cost you a transport or two, but 2-4 extra Allied units can save British Africa from an early German invasion.

Remember that US and UK troops can land on Russian territories, helping defend them from Germany or keeping Germany from blitzing through. Also, putting pressure on Southern Europe via a transport off the North Coast of Africa can really make Germany squirm while trying to defend every territory they own. Make sure to protect transports from any German aircraft!

Sometimes, the UK can get a factory built in India or Egypt, or the US player can get one in China. If you can do this, it really helps Russia fend off Japan longer. Just remember that if you build it and Japan takes it within one or two turns, you are a hundred times worse off than if you never built it in the first place. Defending Allied factories in Asia becomes easier if you group all available fighters there on the first turn (like the Egyptian UK fighter, the fighter on the UK carrier, and even Russian fighters). Always be aware of sneaky Japanese transports that may pick up infantry from the islands and use them against your factory, possibly with aircraft support from Japan or carriers.

Hopefully that gives you some ideas. Remember, these strategies may not work as your group gets more experienced.

@OLver:

Thanks for the input guys. My oponent should really have landed in Africa with UK on the first turn.

I also thought that sending a Russian fighter in Anglo Egypt was a big mistake made by my oponent, so was it to not leave Leningrad completly empty.

My bad I said 1 inf and one art from Africa but of course it was 1 tank and 1 inf. I also forgot to say that my two subs in the baltic were moved in  seazone 7. I knew my navy was going to be destroyed, but it forced my oponent to split his airforce, and I saved a sub and killed one fighter with my transport/dest fleet.

There are two approaches to a non-Baltic fleet buy that I’ve seen and use.

1.  Stay put.  If the UK attacks with its air, the Germans kill UK air.  The Germans lose a lot of navy which they weren’t using a lot (they would have used the Baltic transport), and the UK loses its valuable and hard-to-replace air.

2.  Split into four groups.  If the UK splits its air up, German subs can surrender and German destroyer and/or transport have a better chance of bringing down some UK air.  If the UK doesn’t split its air up, then at least three German units survive.  Note that the US bomber will probably knock out another German naval unit.

I guess my oponent did not play really well  with Russia because even thought I had few land units on the Russian front, my fighters always allowed me to trade territories and to keep UK and US navy at bay for a while.

Yes, trading territories is - after a fashion - a strength of the German fighter buy, but REALLY, you should have been bled dry, especially with having to transport units to Africa.

Now I have to explain what were, in my opinion the advantages of such a move. UK and USA had to buy much more navy to protect their transports, so even thought my russian front was some kind of weak, Germany was almost never threatened, and the Allies coult not build any fleet in the Pacific. On UK1, my oponent send his Indian SZ Fighter to destroy my tank in Anglo-Egypt along with the Transjordan inf. He succeded, but my lonely Japan transport stayed alive, so I only had to buy one on J1 and could already build a factory in Mandchuria. On J1 I took China and Buryatia. Two turn later a factory was build in French Indochina, and another one in India a turn later.

German fighters have nothing to do with a fleet in the Pacific.  Nothing you have yet described prevents the Allies from building a fleet in Atlantic OR Pacific.  (Of course, if they build in the Atlantic, they’ll have to overcome that German air force, but I digress)

The UK can still send their carrier and destroyer against the Japanese transport at Kwangtung - and they should, too, in view of the fact they used the Indian fighter against Anglo-Egypt.  More weak play.  :wink:

I think you spent way too many IPCs on industrial complexes.  If you purchase 16 IPC of transports, you can move up to four units from Japan to the mainland, and vary between anywhere from Soviet Far East to French Indochina; furthermore, those transports can be used as naval fodder and to pick up Japanese infantry from isolated islands where they are doing no good.  Compare with a 15 IPC industrial complex that produces three units, cannot switch where units are placed, cannot be used as naval fodder, and do not solve the problem of wasted Japanese infantry resources sitting on isolated islands.  I know Caspian Sub states 2 transports 1 industrial complex is good, but I think I would prefer 3 transports 1 tank on J1 regardless of bid - if I can claim India and put an IC there with Japan, the positional advantage is huge.

–

In practice, those German fighters have limited range, exactly as I previously mentioned; you will probably end up having to split the German fighters between eastern territories and Western Europe.  This isn’t too bad in practice.  What you will probably see is the Allies building up a fleet off Eastern Canada; when the Allies feel like it, they will unite newly built naval units from Eastern US with the existing fleet off Eastern Canada and land at Algeria, where with no surviving Baltic fleet elements and your German Mediterranean fleet probably not in a position to counter, and insufficient German fighters at Western Europe (considering that you have to split between Western Europe and eastern territories), you can do nothing THAT TURN.

On the next turn, though, you can land 10 fighter 1 bomber (possibly 9 fighter 1 bomber) at Western Europe.  If the Allied navy stay off Algeria, you beat them up, if the Allied navy retreats from Algeria, you may have a problem.  Why a problem?  Because even a pretty tame Allied fleet will land 6 US and 4 UK ground units (2 starting UK transports and 2 starting US transports plus 1 US transport bought on US1); you may easily have to deal with a lot more.  And although you have air at Western Europe that can hit Algeria, you need cheap German ground units to act as fodder; you can get 2 German infantry in with the Mediterranean transport, but otherwise - well, you can see that you might have a problem to deal with.

So let us say that is what happens.  On the German turn, you fly all your fighters to Western Europe, and the Allies respond by pulling their navy back to Eastern Canada and buying another US carrier at Eastern US (I assume they bought one already on US1 after seeing the German fighter build).  Germany does nothing about the Allied forces in Algeria.

Germany’s next turn, you can only trade off Karelia and one other territory easily (that other territory being the one your German bomber can hit).  BUT now what?  If you fly away from Western Europe, the Allies will land MORE units at Algeria.  And if you do NOT fly away from Western Europe, the Allies STILL land at Algeria, with probable 6 transports (up to 7 or 8 easily), 2 destroyers, 2 carriers, 4 fighters, 1 battleship.  EVEN with that mighty air force, there is nothing you can do.  So let us say you GIVE UP Algeria and start harassing Russia with your mighty air force.  The Allies have sunk 32 IPC in carriers, and are just making their landing at Africa; they are out of position to help Russia.

So as you can see, what have you gained at best?  Nothing but TIME.  Time for Japan to push on Russia.  Time for the Germans to keep the IPCs they gained in Africa.  And that is EXACTLY why I recommend using African bid units instead of Ukraine.  You need to control Africa early while you still can; you WILL lose Africa eventually.

–

And remember these things too:

1.  The Allies can still go KJF (if they do, Germany has to try to control and keep control of Africa.)

2.  By buying so many fighters early, you lock yourself into a certain line of German play.  You may do better to stagger your fighter buys out (say 1 German fighter a turn or even 2 German fighters on G1) so you can have some early infantry to trade with Russia sooner.

In short - yes, if the Allies go KGF, German fighters are useful - however, I do not think that 4 fighters RIGHT AWAY is necessary or proper; I think 2 fighters is the most that the Germans can afford on G1.

In a good KJF, Germany will be stopped before getting 50 IPC, Switch.  Any layman player who puts some thought into it can easily slow Germany enough to prevent them from being at the doorstep of Moscow before Round 10, at which point, Japan should be castrated.

The trick is to put 2-3 transports of troops into Africa a turn.  Easy to do without building a single extra transport.  Actually, odds are, you’re putting 4 transports in a round.  Maybe more, if England is focused on Africa and fighters for Russia.  America can take Japan without England’s help.  Just use the English fleet to make it near impossible to sink the American fleet and let America take the islands.

Yea, the reason for that is America can offset any advances by Japan through exploitation of her islands.  Couple that with the massive fleet Japan has to build up just to keep America from owning everything and killing her Asian units from the rear and you have a mess for Japan.

@yamamato456:

I like that idea of a KBF in the sense that your not trying to take the capital itself only trying to wipe out its colonial IPCs.  Germany and japan help each other to take Africa and mideast.  Japan takes india, australia, and new zealand.  Depending on the situation Japan could invade canada and alaska.  All of this and maybe a G1 AC buy could put Britain nearly at the single digits.  Anyone else have some thoughts on this?  Will this leave Russia too strong?  What naval strategy (naval units bought, joining fleets or not,etc…) would you have to have in order to take out almost all of Britains colonys excluding eastern canada and britain itself?

think somewhere similar as you do :mrgreen:

:roll: i’m sorry, i really am :wink: