Transporting Artillery

i think that jeeps not being able to carry artillery has more to do with how much time passes in each phase.  i mean, a jeep couldn’t just drive up and within seconds have an artillery ready to be pulled into battle and then fired in that same round.  anti-tank guns are pretty big, no?  that they move 2 reflects that they can move far (as far as an infantry who moves and moves) and not being able to move in the movement phase means they can move and attack, since it takes time to prepare a gun to be fired.

Yes… no unit with subtype artillery in this game can board a vehicle with Transport ability because they have 0 speed in Movement phase.  Inspiring Lieutenant doesn’t affect this rule. (He allows artillery to move in movement phase with +1 speed special ability).

In World War II, most German artillery was transported to the front by horse, according to renowned historian John Keegan.

German half-tracks would carry PAK-38s.  But not in this game.

Hmm, German half-tracks carrying PAK38s. Sounds like a new special ability for a “Veteran Crew” half-track.

@General:

In World War II, most German artillery was transported to the front by horse, according to renowned historian John Keegan.Â

German half-tracks would carry PAK-38s.  But not in this game.

Keegan was the man, i took a couple classes based on his work recently.

Pak-38s were also transported by trucks, they would load the AT gun on a sled (known to the allies as “rosebud”) on this sled the At gun would be locked down in a fireing postion, so not only could other units carry that beast of gun, but they could carry it in a wy that made it possible to fire( not while in motion though, the truck would stop, and stabalizers would lift the truck a fraction of an inch to steady it for the recoil of the AT gun. like it or not, but that info came from Keegan.

I read Keegan’s Second World War.  An excellent book, of course.  At first I found it surprising how great a role horses played in transporting guns for the Wermacht, but then again, they are cheaper than building vehicles and require no…. oil.

In the book, there is a photo of German soldiers whipping horses that are pulling an artillery piece in Poland 1939.  The caption reads Most german artillery remained horse-drawn until the end of the war.

How many german horses died in Russia??? I can’t imagine.

lots of horses im sure, the allies used thier bodies to make temporary road blocks. pretty effective to agansit most things, other than tanks, that would just be messy. :-P

Yes, horses played a definite role in the WWII. As a matter of fact, many messenger used them too in Europe because it was “cheap”, required no oil and was able to go pretty much anywhere. As a matter of fact, in Set II, they even created the polish cavalrymen. Even if most people think those guys were just crazy stupid foolish guys, we must remember that most fuel tank were easily targetable back in 1939. So those cavalrymen would used bombs attached to spears and they would target the fuel tank, destroying the tanks. As well, a horse is far more hard to hit, because of it’s mobility, than a tank or a regular soldier.
So my point is . . . horses rock !

The Polish were not fools.  They were just not prepared to defend themselves against a modern army.  Neither was France, Belgium or any other nation on mainland Europe in 1939.

@Otto_Skorzeny:

Yes, horses played a definite role in the WWII. As a matter of fact, many messenger used them too in Europe because it was “cheap”, required no oil and was able to go pretty much anywhere. As a matter of fact, in Set II, they even created the polish cavalrymen. Even if most people think those guys were just crazy stupid foolish guys, we must remember that most fuel tank were easily targetable back in 1939. So those cavalrymen would used bombs attached to spears and they would target the fuel tank, destroying the tanks. As well, a horse is far more hard to hit, because of it’s mobility, than a tank or a regular soldier.
So my point is . . . horses rock !

You are forgetting a few key things in your analysis…

1.  German tanks were diesel.  It was the American’s that had the exploding gas tank problem.
2.  Horses may not require gas, but they do require GRASS.  Combat zones are not the best place to put your horse out to graze, and hauling enough food to feed a horse is equivalent to feeding 8 men subsistence rations.
3.  A horse that is hit virtually anywhere on its body is now a casualty, where a vehicle can keep going after being riddled with bullets, depending on the location of those hits.
4.  Speed… horses are good compared to men, but suck compared to vehicles.

And last but not least, you need to remember the one weapon that DECIMATED the Polish Cavalry in 1939:  the machine gun.  Hit the horse OR rider, and it is game over for cavalry.

The horse stopped being a viable military vehicle just after the turn of the 20th C.  As late as the mid 20th C. they still had some value as a Quartermaster vehicle for a defeated army.  Now…  How many horses can you put on a C-5 for use in Iraq?  And how many C-5’s of grain will you have to ship to feed those horses once they get there?  And how does a horse hold up to a roadside bomb?

I’m preaty sure that Otto didn’t refer to the exploding gas tank problem but the fact that a well placed bomb can rupture a fuel tank.  With no more fuel, the thank stops.

The Horse was used alot and not just by germans.  It’s true that you have to feed it but it came a time when fuel supply became a real problem for the germans, they were not after the soviet oil fields for nothing.  Another thing to keep in mind is that a horse can turn into food for the troops, a thing that a jeep cannot do.  And a starved horse will keep on doing his job a while before he dies, vehicules can’t.

I agree that horses are not used in modern armies.  But WWII happed over 60 years ago, a time when horse was a reliable transportation method.  I must say that if I had to go to war, I wouldn’t like the idea of going on a horses’s back.

And last but not least, you need to remember the one weapon that DECIMATED the Polish Cavalry in 1939:  the machine gun.  Hit the horse OR rider, and it is game over for cavalry.

This is why I think the Polish cavaltry unit in Set II is broken.

I like how the game developers include a variety of different units to play with… but in order for you to play the Invasion of Poland you would need so many cavalry, that Polish tank thing, and early german tanks, like the Mark II, it would require buying a TON of  Boosters to acquire those pieces.

Not many units have the year “1939” on them.

Same with the invasion of France.  It would take $10,000 (exaggeration) to get enough French infantry and early German tanks.

And anyway, those battles were so lopsided, I’d rather play the Allied breakout in France 1944 with German, British and American units.  Or the Battle of Kursk or Berlin… with massive tank battles.

I really don’t want ANYMORE Chinese units!!!

Horses were also used to transport cable repair men quickly (not the jim carrey type :roll:) This was a major deal. in stalengrade german snipers were told to shoot the horse before the man, men the ruskys had plenty, but not to many horses. but being able to fix radio lines fast was of major importance in stalingrade considering that on any givin black everyother building would have a different army in it.

And starving German troops in Russia ate their horses.  They invaded Russia wearing summer uniforms, wearing leather boots with iron nails in the summer of 1941.  Like Napoleon more than a century earlier.

Starve and freeze they did.

Them Ruskies had felt gloves and felt boots, thanks to that evil capitalist empire the United States.

very good Yoda, but i was under the impression that we were an imperialistic country, not capitalism.

We are all imperialist stooges.  :?

Okay folks, please stay on topic. Let’s not start a flame war.  Keep it somewhat friendly :-)

A few of my friends and i decided that in world war 2 the artillery pieces were moveable. The conclusion that we came to was that if a tank or half track were to pull the artillery piece, you would have to roll a die to determine whether the tank could carry the piece. On a one two or three the tank didnt have enough strength. One disadvantage that we made was that the vehicle lost 1 speed to compensate for the weight of the piece. Another disadvantage is that it counts as two pieces and if the tank is destroyed while pulling it then the piece is also destroyed. when the tank is pulling the piece and both are in a hex, they count as one unit. Let me know what u guys think and if u have any better ideas. -PEACE