Why do you think Ships for the CP are not good

I would agree that the game is not grossly unbalanced, but much of the unbalance comes from a starting setup that is both a) ahistorical and b) makes no sense (i.e. France starting with two battleships).

Building battleships, unfortunately, does only one thing for Germany: costs it a great deal of money needed elsewhere. In real life, the costs of the KM’s building program were astronomical. Dreadnought parity with England was a losing gamble.

U-boats are Germany’s best best. Not only can they inflict battle damage on the Allied fleets, but they can cause some level of economic trouble.

Building battleships for Austria is, in general, a bad idea. A sub or two may not hurt, but their navy’s job is to simply keep Italy out of Istria and Dalmatia.

Their economy cannot spare the money.  On other other hand, for the Ottomans it might actually give them a brief, local naval superiority. The second option would be an interesting avenue to explore, given Turkey’s fairly extensive coastline and the possiblity of shore bombardment and a threat to the Suez Canal.

@AlphaAeffchen:

Hi,

thx for yourt answer.

Im not interrested in historical facts. This is a game. I dont care about history in AA games, the balance is the most important thing. The balance must be correct (this is the most important thing to do in this kind of games otherwise we have no fun because its onesided). What i want to point out is if the CP ignore the allied Navy and build no ships they cant win the war (Perhaps all in on Russia but ist still difficult). Like Texas said in one of his posts we cant play this game like the WWII versions. The CP need a bit of Navy to win the game. The Atlantic and the mid Sea is the key. I dont see other ways. If you know please tell me.

Best regards

A. Aeffchen

Yes, it is a game, but the same limitations that affected the CPs, economically and naval, are still present in the game.

There never will be a naval balance because there never was one to begin with.

@AlphaAeffchen:

Hi,

thx for yourt answer.

Im not interrested in historical facts. This is a game. I dont care about history in AA games, the balance is the most important thing. The balance must be correct (this is the most important thing to do in this kind of games otherwise we have no fun because its onesided). What i want to point out is if the CP ignore the allied Navy and build no ships they cant win the war (Perhaps all in on Russia but ist still difficult). Like Texas said in one of his posts we cant play this game like the WWII versions. The CP need a bit of Navy to win the game. The Atlantic and the mid Sea is the key. I dont see other ways. If you know please tell me.

Best regards

A. Aeffchen

I totally agree with you Äffchen.
Both Germany and Austria start with powerful armies that should keep the Allies away from Home tts. In fact I would say Germany should spend the first two Rounds its 35 IPCs in 2 BBs and 1 Cruiser attack the brits with their navy
Round 1. Even an amphibious assault in Scotland should be possible after that. If not Turkey wins time to march into Sevastopol or even India. Also the Allies would freak out if Austria takes the med with its navy. I will definitely try it next time when I have the CPs…

I’ve found that Germany can afford a few ships per turn and still bring the hurt to the allies on the ground, and even defending the Austian fleet for the first little bit helps, because the allies won’t be able to attack so easily and usually spend their cash on a Med. fleet, making Italy even weaker. The strong German navy keeps England from buying transpors, troops or India and makes them buy a defense navy. It’s a great stall tactic for the Centrals keeping Italy, US and UK busy buying ships to fight a naval battle, meanwhile you (CP) can focus on the ground and pound to bring someone to their knees!!!

Gords Gamble :  My buddy tried a daring move early one Sunday morning. He stacked a large Austrian force with two planes outside Moscow, backed up by a small German force (but 4 or 5 planes). Germans turn he attacks with his planes and takes out my 75% (3/4) of my defending planes and some of my infantry. Then of course Austria marches, cleans up the air and sacs Moscow, taking it a turn later on the Russian counter (ha ha) attack. I think the idea to take away is to maybe have a force of planes (why not just planes) to fly around and take out air forces for your team-mates.  hhmmm. . . . . .

I did a Naval build as Austria once, built a new Dread and 2 cruisers eventually, and then managed to sink the Italian navy while only losing one cruiser Caused the British to come hold me off and let the Ottomans off the hook for a while, and also prevented the Americans from landing in Rome so they couldn’t stop ma epic tank smash through of Italy. All in all, it was a fun strat to go, if for no other reason than the Entente player was so unprepared for it that it through him off.

In general I try to go for a naval build those first few turns as the Centrals, before my starting armies have been worn down too much. I also play with the revised set up that takes away one of the French Dreads as well so it certainly makes things easier.

Its worth considering the naval retreats rule (my idea) introduced in PTR; this gives the German navy the option of hit-and-run attacks vs the British fleet, returning safely to their own mined waters. This at least creates a kind of balance in the naval war.

@Flashman:

Its worth considering the naval retreats rule (my idea) introduced in PTR; this gives the German navy the option of hit-and-run attacks vs the British fleet, returning safely to their own mined waters. This at least creates a kind of balance in the naval war.

That’s a good idea. Has anyone considered tying BB or CC shore bombardment to IPC/strategic attacks? I know that at a certain point in the war, German shore bombardments of British North Sea towns was a serious problem. Serious enough that it caused the Royal Navy a great deal of embarrassment, as citizens wondered, “where was the navy?”

Might work with my morale system; though the shelling only killed a few civilians, it did cause a panic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_on_Scarborough,_Hartlepool_and_Whitby

We do need new submarine rules though, that do substantial IPC damage if not dealt with.

@Flashman:

Might work with my morale system; though the shelling only killed a few civilians, it did cause a panic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_on_Scarborough,_Hartlepool_and_Whitby

We do need new submarine rules though, that do substantial IPC damage if not dealt with.

Agreed. A morale system is a better option for reflecting internal politics; I just worry that it would grow too complex for easy recordkeeping.

So I played a long Saturday afternoon my beloved A&A1914 OOB (without PTR).

For the first time EVER the CPs crushed the Allies!!!

To be fair it has to be said that dices have been very very friendly with Willy, Franz and Mohammed for the first 5 Rounds. Without that much luck I think it would have been the same result as every game before. (CPs giving up R7-8)
In R2 I bought with Germany 3 Battleships and soon another 3 or 4. GE attacked the British Fleet with success. In the west Germany retreated from Picardie before it would have lost many Artillery units from a combined french-anglo attack and I think this safed the day. Russians were out R5-6, after that fell Italy. Italy was on its knees when Austria arrived with the first tanks. GE built Transports (with Moscow treasure bonus) and landed in Scotland while most of the army marched into France. The East Army headed up south against the ANZACS and Indians together with Turks.

After India was captured it was easy for the CPs… Ottoman Egypt blocked the british ships from moving to the Motherland and the CPs threw everything to Paris. Americans were to weak to do anything than defend. Paris fell and two Rounds later even London was captured.

After Round 12 Washington was invaded from Austrian and German troops that had landed in Canada. At this time GE had 110 IPCs, Austria 40-50 and even OE had 30 something IPCs.

Only thing that botherd me is that I did not record every turn to create something like a CP-strategy based on this rare experience.

What stays in my mind is that GE and Austria had to built much much Infantry to stand a chance when the Allies attacked one stack consecutively. And that Austria and Germany need to bild up their Navy after finishing the Russians.

If air superiority was the key to win WW2, naval supremacy was the key for winning WW1.

How did things in Africa go for the CPs, and how do you feel the naval balance affected this, Chacmool?

@protevangelium:

How did things in Africa go for the CPs, and how do you feel the naval balance affected this, Chacmool?

Well like everytime in my games the northern African Units of the Allies were early shipped to the European theatre (to reinforce and/or activate Minors like Albania or Portugal) and the British Egypt Army invaded Trans Jordan.

South of the Sahara the Germans took some british colonies until the Allied armys catched them. There were some battles without hits/results in this contested areas until the Germans as defenders could decimate the attacking Aliies in South/East Africa. The naval forces of Britain were too busy bringing more troops into Arabia to push the turks back but after the colossal german/austrian naval investements they had to reduce their Mobilizatian in India to a minimum to enlarge their own Fleet in the North Sea… In the med Italy wasnt capable to answer this naval race and France had to buy Infantry…

At the End of the game strong turkish forces captured the last African tts that werent already in german control while Austrian units landed in Northern Africa.