13L G40 seththenewb(allies+10) vs MagicQ(axis)

MagicQ

need ool

31939 I8 ool.tsvg

seth4god

FYI

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cS3hFwoBP0rWr3208jw1LAtCvHYa9Ji9uU8PwbCMIwM/edit?pli=1

With sub combat you should roll the battle out on the forum. I don’t do so when it’s say a sub+air vs a dd or dd+air vs sub. But it’s to roll on the forum once you start getting multiple units in the battle. As you start picking sub casualties without knowing how the rest of the battle will go.

I’ll accept this round of combat with subs, but I reserve the right to negate any subsequent combat rolls in triplea that involve subs.

cv*2, 2dd, ca

MagicQ

Did Triplea do it wrong in terms of the battle sequence in this case? If so, what’s wrong? I don’t get it.

MagicQ

I think the proper battle sequence would be

1. attacker roll
2. defender choose casualty
3. defender roll
4. attacker choose casualty

Italian subs attack first here is not a surprise attack. They can only hit warships so that they should roll separately from other attackers.

MagicQ

Probably when defender’s sub present, things will get more complicated.

seth4god

Yes, I have destroyers present in the battle. So your sub special abilities are negated. But triplea still has your subs rolling first before everyone else, forcing casualty choices prior to the rest of the attacker’s dice. It does this with both defending and attacking subs and it’s wrong.

Quick example

I attack a sub with dd, ca, 2ftrs. In triplea the sub rolls first and gets a hit before the attacker knows if he’ll get the sub or not. If the attacker chooses to lose the dd and then all his units miss that sub escapes. If the attacker decides to play it safe and kill the cruiser, then he risks losing a more valuable piece for nothing if he gets a hit.

Or say there’s a massive slugfest w/10 subs in the attacking force. Those subs are rolled and produce 7 hits. The defender thinks that a battle he should win just went south in a hurry and loses some carriers because he ‘knows’ that the rest of the attackers are about to stomp him. Instead the rest of the attackers score just 5 hits despite hordes of air, ca, bbs, etc. Now the defender’s lost a bunch of his flight decks because he made casualty choices based on the sub rolls despite having destroyers to negate the subs.

MagicQ

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 3.7

Game History

Round: 8

Purchase Units - Italians
Italians buy 1 carrier, 1 destroyer and 1 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs;

Combat Move - Italians
1 cruiser moved from 97 Sea Zone to 94 Sea Zone
1 infantry moved from Libya to Tobruk
Italians take Tobruk from British
1 carrier moved from 97 Sea Zone to 93 Sea Zone
3 destroyers and 4 submarines moved from 97 Sea Zone to 92 Sea Zone
Italians take 97 Sea Zone from British
2 fighters moved from 97 Sea Zone to 92 Sea Zone
1 cruiser moved from 94 Sea Zone to 92 Sea Zone
1 carrier moved from 93 Sea Zone to 92 Sea Zone
1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Western Germany to 92 Sea Zone
1 bomber moved from Caucasus to 92 Sea Zone

Combat - Italians
British scrambles 3 units out of Gibraltar to defend against the attack in 92 Sea Zone
Battle in 92 Sea Zone
Italians attack with 1 bomber, 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 3 destroyers, 3 fighters, 4 submarines and 1 tactical_bomber
French defend with 1 infantry; British defend with 1 battleship, 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 3 destroyers, 5 fighters and 3 transports
Units damaged: 1 battleship owned by the British
Italians win with 1 bomber, 1 cruiser, 2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 72
Casualties for French: 1 infantry
Casualties for British: 1 battleship, 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 3 destroyers, 5 fighters and 3 transports
Casualties for Italians: 1 carrier, 3 destroyers, 1 fighter and 4 submarines

Non Combat Move - Italians
1 fighter could not land in 92 Sea Zone and was removed
1 bomber moved from 92 Sea Zone to Southern France
1 tactical_bomber moved from 92 Sea Zone to 93 Sea Zone
1 fighter moved from 92 Sea Zone to 93 Sea Zone
1 transport moved from 97 Sea Zone to 93 Sea Zone
1 aaGun, 4 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from Caucasus to Northwest Persia
1 artillery moved from Normandy Bordeaux to Southern France
1 infantry moved from France to Southern France
1 infantry moved from France to Northern Italy
1 infantry moved from Northern Italy to Southern Italy

Place Units - Italians
1 carrier and 1 destroyer placed in 93 Sea Zone
1 infantry placed in Northern Italy

Turn Complete - Italians
Italians collect 23 PUs; end with 23 PUs total
Objective Italians 4 Control Iraq Or Persia Or Northwest Persia: Italians met a national objective for an additional 2 PUs; end with 25 PUs
Objective Italians 1 Control The Mediterranean: Italians met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 30 PUs

MagicQ

Got a little bit of luck there.

seth4god

Ok and Nope

Reroll after the 2nd round since you ignored my stated wish.

MagicQ

Subs got 2 hits and there is only 2 warships so there is no choice for defender. What do you reckon?

seth4god

The battle was rolled illegally, hence the results aren’t valid. I told you why they were illegal and gave you the first round. But I stated that I would not accept any further sub combat that was rolled on triplea. That document clearly states that sub combat needs to be rolled on the forum and THAT’s what I’m protesting.

MagicQ

@seththenewb:

Yes, I have destroyers present in the battle. So your sub special abilities are negated. But triplea still has your subs rolling first before everyone else, forcing casualty choices prior to the rest of the attacker’s dice. It does this with both defending and attacking subs and it’s wrong.

Quick example

I attack a sub with dd, ca, 2ftrs. In triplea the sub rolls first and gets a hit before the attacker knows if he’ll get the sub or not. If the attacker chooses to lose the dd and then all his units miss that sub escapes. If the attacker decides to play it safe and kill the cruiser, then he risks losing a more valuable piece for nothing if he gets a hit.

Or say there’s a massive slugfest w/10 subs in the attacking force. Those subs are rolled and produce 7 hits. The defender thinks that a battle he should win just went south in a hurry and loses some carriers because he ‘knows’ that the rest of the attackers are about to stomp him. Instead the rest of the attackers score just 5 hits despite hordes of air, ca, bbs, etc. Now the defender’s lost a bunch of his flight decks because he made casualty choices based on the sub rolls despite having destroyers to negate the subs.

Thanks. I get what you mean by that. Attacker will take advantage of that little flaw of the software. But in most cases it won’t make any difference.

seth4god

I’m asking Gamer to get involved

MagicQ

@seththenewb:

The battle was rolled illegally, hence the results aren’t valid. I told you why they were illegal and gave you the first round. But I stated that I would not accept any further sub combat that was rolled on triplea. That document clearly states that sub combat needs to be rolled on the forum and THAT’s what I’m protesting.

I am not sure about that. How is that invalid? 2 subs hit 2 and there is only 2 warships. there is no need to ask for anything imho regardless of what the rest of Italian fleets do,

MagicQ

@seththenewb:

I’m asking Gamer to get involved

OK.

MagicQ

I think the problem will happen only when there are multiple chooses for defender.

seth4god

It doesn’t matter what you rolled as that dice rolling was illegal. I stated it and asked that the combat be done via forum. You blatantly ignored me and proceeded anyway.

And it seems like you still don’t get why subs rolling first, be they defending or attacking subs, when destroyers are present is an issue. I’ll wait for Gamerman01 to weigh in before I make any further comment.

boldfresh

how many subs are we talking about? are there subs on defense with an attacking destroyer or what? please put in text form the issue.

seth4god

cv, 3dd, 4ss, ca, 3ftr, tac, bmb vs 3dd, cv, ca, bb, 5ftr

2 subs carried over into the 2nd round.

MagicQ

@seththenewb:

It doesn’t matter what you rolled as that dice rolling was illegal. I stated it and asked that the combat be done via forum. You blatantly ignored me and proceeded anyway.

And it seems like you still don’t get why subs rolling first, be they defending or attacking subs, when destroyers are present is an issue. I’ll wait for Gamerman01 to weigh in before I make any further comment.

Don’t mean to ignore you or anything. I just feel it make no difference in this case. Italian subs roll first and the rest of the Italian fleets roll right next to it. There is nothing in between. And defender have to choose 2 warships as casualties and there is no other option.

13L G40 seththenewb(allies+10) vs MagicQ(axis)

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