Without house rules or any perks to the Axis then classic AA is 90% chance of victory for the Allies. Unless the Allied player is green or has not read Don’s essays on AA then the game is even but once the Allied player knows how to operate then it is usually a short game with the Allies as the victor.
Poll: German First Turn Build
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I think most tend to leave it in Italy as a land bridge to Afr and to dissuade a weak attempt at invading Italy by the allies.
An invasion of Italy is nothing to worry about. First most simply trade it 1inf for the 6bucks, anything more is a waste. Germany doesn’t need a fleet in the med and can survive without it.
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Oh I wasn’t saying they needed the fleet (as I define as rebuilding if it is lost) what I was saying is it doesn’t hurt to have it. After all, I’m not going to argue with having a spare BB laying around with a tranny…you never know, you might want to re-invade Afr if you can take Moscow. I just don’t think it wise to move it out of Italy as it does make a decent defense against a southern incursion.
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@AgentSmith:
- Keep BB and original transport by Italy along with the purchased transport which makes for a moderate sized Navy.
But it will certainly end up a waste. As the Brits I would land ftrs in Cauc, and reinforce with Russians once this happens this fleet is toast. If it moves to the Atlantic its killed and if it stays in the med it is also killed. The problem I have is what does this do get you 2more infantry in Africa. By the way Germany doesn’t need or shouldn’t place large amounts of troops in Africa. Africa should be a distraction/sidebar, so that when the Allies go to retake it Germany can squeeze Karelia. Anymore than that is a waste. Further if you miss my sub I will send a bmb sub versus this fleet, and you’ll end up getting very little for your investment.
In a bid game, this could enable the German Navy to escape into the Indian ocean which opens up different options (Madagascar, India?, Australia?, New Zealand, or how about Brazil with the bonus of the German navy in S. Atlantic to prevent shipment of troops to S. Africa by transport?). While this is somewhat duplication of what Japan could do, it could force the Allies to react to a situation they have not seen before.
No way. No good Allied player is going to let that fleet just roam around. I would advise to always make it priority number one in the first few turns. If it costs 1-2 aircraft sobeit.
A 4 inf EEu, 1 trn CMD, 1 inf Lib, 1 ipc Ger bid orso can make the trn bid worthwhile and it will be very tough to kill this fleet anytime soon. Furthermore you will be very flexible to send the Afrika units back to Europe if that will give you a decisive advantage (a R1 Ukraine attack might result in such a situation). I dont think that buying a trn in G1 will give the same results/options even remotely.
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Fighters in Stalingrad may not be a totally bad idea even without a plan to attack the med fleet.
Say 1 fighter in Cauc + 5 inf should deter any assault on Stalingrad as a way around Karelia. In an RR game, Germany can bring 5 inf, 3 arm and a BB to Cauc and win without the need of any fighters. With a fighter defense, I’d really consider adding the bomber or a fighter to the equation though….of course, I’d probably just use the tranny to take Syria instead.
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How about this… agentsmith’s idea to only put one round worth of men into Africa, and if you build the transport first turn (something I never approved of…) and kept it protected sufficiently, it could later be used to help hit Russia in Caucasus, also with an amphibious shot by the battleship, and could be used to land 4 extra men in there in addition to anything that could get there otherwise (assuming you have Ukraine). I’ve heard a modification of this (without the build of a transport since it would just get wasted) suggested as a counter for the 8 infantry/3 armor opening attack on Ukraine, which is why I wouldn’t use everything against Ukraine. I’d rather leave 2 men in Caucasus because anything less, Germany can use the starting transport to take Caucasus instead of Africa. This would pressure them to protect their capital, and also pressure the other allies to kill the transport so that it couldn’t just keep moving troops into Caucasus. If Russia counterattacks it immediately it might also weaken Karelia for taking by turn 2-3. Thoughts on this, or do you think it’s better to take Africa even if Caucasus is basically open? This is the big flaw I can find with the hit Ukraine early attack, although it’s still my favorite of the 3 options.
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Anyone ever use the Tranny to get the armor OUT of africa and into the European theater?
Africa’s a nice way to get money, but you definately arn’t going to hold it. Meanwhile, that extra tank might come in handy if it isnt destroyed.
Of course, you could always try to attack through the middle east and up into the Caucases. Any thoughts?
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A 4 inf EEu, 1 trn CMD, 1 inf Lib, 1 ipc Ger bid orso can make the trn bid worthwhile and it will be very tough to kill this fleet anytime soon. Furthermore you will be very flexible to send the Afrika units back to Europe if that will give you a decisive advantage (a R1 Ukraine attack might result in such a situation). I dont think that buying a trn in G1 will give the same results/options even remotely.
Well needless to say I’m not a huge fan of this bid, and I’ve beaten it everytime I’ve played it, but not against its originator. I think the real genius of this bid is it uses Allied over aggressiveness against them, but if they don’t do this, the Axis is not in a favorable position in the longterm. Even the creator of this bid has said to me the strafe of Ukr on R1 does much to neutralize it. I think there are some inherent weaknesses that lie within this bid, but I shant say more. I would say its a good bid to play against someone that routinely attacks in Asia against Japan ie KwangBang. I’ve even encountered a few that will attack Manch even with 2guys bid there. In this case I’d say you’re going to catch them with their hands in the cookie jar so to speak.
Anyone ever use the Tranny to get the armor OUT of africa and into the European theater?
Of course. You’ll find people who power Europe bid that is 8inf into Europe. With such a bid Russia should not be attacking much in Europe on R1, and they may even need or want to abandon Karelia. Eitherway Africa becomes a side show as the Germans should hold Karelia by G2, and there isn’t a lot the Russians can do about it. Because of this troops in Africa end up meaning very little.
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So it’s a decent act to get your troops and tanks out of Africa and go full bore after the Ruskies. Loosing the 10 IPCs has to hurt though…even if you know you’ll just loose them eventually anyway.
No one ever bids tanks into Europe? Maybe, 21 IPCs, 3 tanks, 2 infantry? The extra 2 inf, will keep E. Euro from falling, and the extra 3 tanks might be a nice addition on your counter attack into Karelia G1.
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The Russians become vulnerable if they move inf towards the East from Rus and ENO while keeping the SFE arm out of reach from KAR on R2.
This would be cause to take the Lib arm onto the mainland. Buy 6 arm to take Kar on G2.
If Kar is stacked to the max and the middle and eastern Rus forces go west, then stick w/defense. Add the tran for taking Afr so you can afford the heavier defense while reducing GBR capacity for offence. 8 inf + trn.
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Smith:
No way. No good Allied player is going to let that fleet just roam around. I would advise to always make it priority number one in the first few turns. If it costs 1-2 aircraft sobeit
I see your point. However, I am OK with trading your fighters for my Navy as long as you are willing to chase them down. The 8 ipcs are only 1 tank 1 inf, or 3 inf. Germany can survive the start of the game without this, especially in a bid game. I just think your efforts to chase it down, if I can get it to the Indian ocean, gives you an opportunity cost of having the fighters not where you want them in addition to the possible lose of 1-2 fighters.
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I see your point. However, I am OK with trading your fighters for my Navy as long as you are willing to chase them down. The 8 ipcs are only 1 tank 1 inf, or 3 inf.
Well first off I don’t think any allied ftrs are that valuable by themselves except for the Russian ftrs. Secondly, the sheer threat of the German navy merits its destruction. If you think that chasing it around because its useless is silly, I’d say not using it is more so. If the German fleet can get to the Indian Ocean it can take India, Madagascar, and even Austrailia. I’d say no thank you to all those options. However for it to escape a couple of things have to happen. The Germans have to take Cauc turn 1 to prevent the RAF from landing their on their first turn, and you must take Syria. However, in doing either you endanger losing the fleet anyways so I’d still say the German fleet is a lost cause. I’d make the Allies destroy it but never build another ship and flush away an inf and a tank. Also I think the Allies if they give it enough effort should kill the German navy on either turn 2-3 before they have a chance to escape so I’d say the vein hope you can run away is pretty unlikely.
Germany can survive the start of the game without this, especially in a bid game.
Yes but can the Allies survive if they let it live. I’d be afraid to try myself.
I just think your efforts to chase it down, if I can get it to the Indian ocean, gives you an opportunity cost of having the fighters not where you want them in addition to the possible lose of 1-2 fighters.
And where should they be at the start of the game? In a Africa bid game the Germans will not be strong enough early to put real pressure on Karelia, and therefore the Brits can go where ever it takes to kill the Italian fleet.
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Personally, I can’t forsee a reason to put bid units in Africa. Unless someone gave me an incredible bid like 30+ IPCs… (of course, with that bid, I might go all tanks for a fast kill of USSR and putting them all in Manch…)
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Personally, I can’t forsee a reason to put bid units in Africa. Unless someone gave me an incredible bid like 30+ IPCs… (of course, with that bid, I might go all tanks for a fast kill of USSR and putting them all in Manch…)
You should check out the game DarthMax and I are playing in the games section. Also, be sure to check on how it develops. Hopefully, I can show how to best play an Africa bid, but it can work wonders if done right.
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I’m just thinking if you stacked the deck in Asia you’d be better off. Or at the least stacking it in Europe. Anything to kill Mother Russia faster.
You can always secure Africa after you own Asia uncontested.
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I like 9 inf, 1 arm or 10 inf.
On rare rare rare occasions I’ll buy a ftr and 6 inf save 2.
I don’t really like the tran buy because
- It will get sunk by rd 3 at the latest. I try to make the German ships a priority.
- to utilize 2 trans means you are taking 4 inf out of Europe. For what? 8 IPC to buy a tran, then an extra 6 IPC for the extra inf. That is 14 IPC for only 1 round, meaning even if you hold all of Africa you only earn about 10. And, IMO, it is very hard to do that.
I think you are much better off with the 1 tran, taking Egy and Syr and whatever else you can early on, while you build up your European if and make a push for Cauc.
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I’m just thinking if you stacked the deck in Asia you’d be better off. Or at the least stacking it in Europe. Anything to kill Mother Russia faster.
Based on when I’ve played against it Asia bids should always fail. This is because the quick start Japan will get off to is offset by a corresponding weakened Germany which will limit the two front pressure Russia is under. IMO its the ability to wage a successful 2-3 front war that gives the Axis an advantage. A PE has limitations because Africa is so quickly and easily nailed down thus forcing the Germans hand against Russia ie Karelia. If they don’t take Karelia fast, and they don’t always, it will be a short game. Even if they do it doesn’t always matter as the Allies should maintain a production advantage against the Axis. Further, if Russia falls back from Karelia to Moscow this will further impede Japans timetable into Novo. I find a good Africa bid will often force the Allies to abandon position in Europe/Asia or Africa and either can be used against them.
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Fighter could be nice. Give you a little more playing power in round one, less risk of loosing all and not having killed enough navy.
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Ftr purchases only work with a PE bid in which case you primarily need offense and not defense anyway. The standard G1 ftr purchase is 4arm ftr.
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I regularly play thorugh every country (AXIS or ALLY) to work every scenerio imaginable. Last time I played Germany, I built 1 Transport and spent the rest on Infantry beacause I wanted to take out England first and then the US, just to see if they could be taken down before Russia. I relocated all navy below SEu (and later built a sufficient navy to stop England from producing a navy) and relocated my ground forces to EEu to hold off any attacking Russian forces. I sent my fighters and bomber to destroy England’s navy every turn until I was able to move my navy in and load up transports for invasion. I spent most of my time re-enforcing Africa to secure IPC’s. It seemed to work well. Japan struggled for a bit with Russia, but eventually wore her down.
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I regularly play thorugh every country (AXIS or ALLY) to work every scenerio imaginable. Last time I played Germany, I built 1 Transport and spent the rest on Infantry beacause I wanted to take out England first and then the US, just to see if they could be taken down before Russia. I relocated all navy below SEu (and later built a sufficient navy to stop England from producing a navy) and relocated my ground forces to EEu to hold off any attacking Russian forces. I sent my fighters and bomber to destroy England’s navy every turn until I was able to move my navy in and load up transports for invasion. I spent most of my time re-enforcing Africa to secure IPC’s. It seemed to work well. Japan struggled for a bit with Russia, but eventually wore her down.
i would love to see the opening turns of that game. I am not sure that this would work well against an effective opponant, but it’s an interesting strat.